Search form on autofill screen

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koraykupe
koraykupe
Community Member
edited January 2019 in iOS

Hi,

Sometimes official apps of websites use a different login URL for the login. So, the autofill screen of 1Password doesn't list up the needed login item. I have to manually check the URL and add it to the related login item as a secondary website field.

A search box would be nice on that screen to choose another URL for the app and it would be added to the login item as a secondary website automatically.

I know that it is a kind of security concern, but as long as the user will be responsible to do that it won't be a problem.

Regards.


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
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Comments

  • Ben
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    Hi @koraykupe

    It is possible to add multiple website fields to a login item with different URLs. That should allow you to do what you're looking for here.

    I know that it is a kind of security concern, but as long as the user will be responsible to do that it won't be a problem.

    I don't think that is something we're willing to give up on at this point. :)

    Thanks!

    Ben

  • koraykupe
    koraykupe
    Community Member
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    Hmm, but when I try to login to App Store in iTunes settings of iOS, it shows a search field. Is it only for specific forms?

  • papaspeas
    papaspeas
    Community Member
    edited January 2019
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    I'm with @koraykupe here.

    Not having a search box makes approx 1/5 of my attempted 1Password entries tiresome and clunky, rather than simple and intuitive. Doesn't sound like much until you use it dozens of times per day.

    @Ben , your suggestion involves a multi-step process of:

    • if at a web page, cancel log-in attempt and copy URL
    • exit the app/web page in which you're attempting log-in (OrigApp)
    • navigate to and open the 1Password app
    • biometric or password log-in
    • search for existing Login
    • either creating a new Login, copy existing Login's password to the clipboard, or adding the log-in URL to an existing Login (which, how do you do when logging-in to an app and not web page?)
    • app-switch back to OrigApp and start the password entry via 1Password again

    OR, put a search box at the top and let us choose which Login to use (even if it means that 1Password needs to create a new Login with the same credentials...fine).

    I really dislike opting to use iCloud keychain in these instances because it's just easier, but often end up doing exactly that, then manually backfilling the info to 1Password. Decidedly NOT simple and intuitive.

    This seems like such a simple fix. Maybe there's an, "at your own risk because of x, y, z..." warning dialog if you start typing in the search. Or a toggle switch in 1Password settings that comes with warnings of dire consequences.

    I really don't see the security concern here. Certainly not one that should be controlled/imposed by the app.

    This is an individual making a conscious decision—verified by their entry of biometric or password login—to use one of their existing passwords. A release of liability for 1Password, if you will. If I decide to enter the same password in every app and website, that's my prerogative and I'm able to do so. Not a smart move, but nobody (nor the 1Password app) will prevent my doing so. So why is this different or more of a security risk? A "We've done all we can to keep you from making bad decisions, now go out into this brave new world!"

    Prior to iOS 12's integration of external password managers, at least you went in knowing that you would have to copy/paste and could preemptively do so. While I greatly enjoy the integration and have no wishes to roll back to that older method, at least there was a reliable consistency there. While not ideal, expectations were consistently met. Now, even knowing I already have an existing Login for an app/website, there's no guarantee I will be able to use it.

    Regards,
    dt

  • koraykupe
    koraykupe
    Community Member
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    @papaspeas Thanks for supporting me! :chuffed: Good to see I am not alone.

  • Ben
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    @koraykupe

    Hmm, but when I try to login to App Store in iTunes settings of iOS, it shows a search field. Is it only for specific forms?

    Yes. That only happens where an associated domain is not defined at all by the app. We really don't have much choice in that case though the situation is not ideal.

    Ben

  • Ben
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    @papaspeas

    I really don't see the security concern here. Certainly not one that should be controlled/imposed by the app.

    It is an anti-phishing technique. It prevents things like the following scenario:

    1. Search using a search engine for 1Password in an attempt to log in to 1Password.com
    2. Accidentally click on the result for iPassword.com instead
    3. No login items appear because none are saved for iPassword.com.
    4. "I know I have a login item for 1Password.com! I'll just search for it and fill it that way."
    5. 1Password.com credentials are filled into iPassword.com

    (I don't know what the contents of iPassword.com are but for the moment lets assume it is a phishing site trying to steal credentials from 1Password users)

    That's why we don't offer a search box.

    your suggestion involves a multi-step process of:

    Yep, that's true. There is always a careful balance of security and convenience. In this case you're suggesting the balance should swing toward convenience. We respectfully disagree. Phishing is still a common enough problem that we feel having this protection in place is worth while.

    (which, how do you do when logging-in to an app and not web page?)

    If you don't know what the associated domain for an app is I'd recommend saving a new login from within the app. That'll capture the proper associated domain (if one is specified).

    Doesn't sound like much until you use it dozens of times per day.

    Off hand I can't think of any apps I use that have associated domains defined that do not match the domain they use for their website sign-in. If you have examples of apps that do not I'd be interested in seeing them.

    Ben

  • koraykupe
    koraykupe
    Community Member
    edited January 2019
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    Then, we need to report them manually here as we do for missing save login prompts. I work with many apps/websites, so it's a very time-consuming work for me, but I'll try.

    Manually adding them is the same thing for me. It is just a multi-step version of the search input solution. If a user has the ability to take the bait, he/she also can add it manually.

    You should have a "trusted matched domains" list for that cases. Even for local websites.

  • papaspeas
    papaspeas
    Community Member
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    @Ben
    Thank you for your thoughtful response.

    While I disagree that the intentional steps taken by a 'power user' should be constrained by the mindless clicking of the less-informed masses, I do respect that, as a reputable software developer, you have to make those decisions for the betterment of all/most.

    I won't give up hope that this will someday be an option for the rest of us!

    That said, maybe I just need to allow 1Password to create what are, essentially, duplicate Logins. I suspect after doing this enough times it won't be as common of an occurrence.

    FWIW, I don't ever post to forums, etc., so it has to affect my daily use enough to do so.

    Thanks again.
    dt

  • Ben
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    @koraykupe

    You should have a "trusted matched domains" list for that cases. Even for local websites.

    That is seemingly what having multiple website fields on a login item does?

    Ben

  • Ben
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    @papaspeas

    Thank you for your thoughtful response.

    You're very welcome. Thanks for taking the time to post your perspective.

    you have to make those decisions for the betterment of all/most.

    Indeed.

    That said, maybe I just need to allow 1Password to create what are, essentially, duplicate Logins. I suspect after doing this enough times it won't be as common of an occurrence.

    I suspect that'll be less convenient than adding multiple website fields to existing login items, as whenever you go to change a password for one of these 'duplicates' you'll have to update the credentials in multiple spots.

    FWIW, I don't ever post to forums, etc., so it has to affect my daily use enough to do so.

    Understood. Thanks again.

    Ben

  • papaspeas
    papaspeas
    Community Member
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    @Ben

    I suspect that'll be less convenient than adding multiple website fields to existing login items, as whenever you go to change a password for one of these 'duplicates' you'll have to update the credentials in multiple spots.

    Excellent point. Noted!

    Thanks.
    dt

  • Ben
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    :+1:

    Ben

  • gedankenexperimenter
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    It is an anti-phishing technique. It prevents things like the following scenario:

    1. Search using a search engine for 1Password in an attempt to log in to 1Password.com
    2. Accidentally click on the result for iPassword.com instead
    3. No login items appear because none are saved for iPassword.com.
    4. "I know I have a login item for 1Password.com! I'll just search for it and fill it that way."
    5. 1Password.com credentials are filled into iPassword.com

    It prevents the user from searching for the entry in that way, but it certainly doesn't prevent that kind of phishing from working; it just forces the user to do even more work. Do you have evidence that having a more convenient search mechanism actually results in more people getting successfully phished, or is that just supposition?

    The critical thing here is getting the user to think twice about whether or not they should trust the app or website they are trying to enter their credentials into, rather than how much work they have to do once they've decided to enter those credentials. I would expect an explicit warning to be more effective at getting users to think twice before entering credentials into a website or app that doesn't match the stored domain name.

    On the Android app, I can search, but once I've selected the entry to use, I get a warning:

    "1Password can't verify that App Name should have access to your Entry Name login. Do you want to fill it anyway?"

    This means I do less work switching back and forth between the apps, which might mean that I'm less distracted and impatient when I'm confronted with that warning, and more likely to read it and take it seriously. I do think it would be better if the highlighted, obvious button was CANCEL instead of FILL, so I would have to think more to use it, though.

  • Ben
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    All reasonable points, @gedankenexperimenter.

    Do you have evidence that having a more convenient search mechanism actually results in more people getting successfully phished, or is that just supposition?

    That's a good question, and I don't know the answer. I suspect we do not have such evidence. We are very privacy conscious, and so we make every to gather as little information as reasonable.

    Ben

  • papaspeas
    papaspeas
    Community Member
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    The critical thing here is getting the user to think twice about whether or not they should trust the app or website they are trying to enter their credentials into, rather than how much work they have to do once they've decided to enter those credentials. I would expect an explicit warning to be more effective at getting users to think twice before entering credentials into a website or app that doesn't match the stored domain name.

    On the Android app, I can search, but once I've selected the entry to use, I get a warning:

    "1Password can't verify that App Name should have access to your Entry Name login. Do you want to fill it anyway?"

    Seconded!

  • gedankenexperimenter
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    That's a good question, and I don't know the answer. I suspect we do not have such evidence. We are very privacy conscious, and so we make every to gather as little information as reasonable.

    Of course! What I should have asked was if you were aware of any evidence to support the hypothesis. If there is any extant research on the question, it would be interesting to examine, but I don't have the time to go searching for it, and I thought someone at 1Password might have that knowledge at hand. My own hypothesis seems better to me, naturally, but I also have no evidence I can point to that shows that it is more effective.

  • Ben
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    I'll ask our security team to take a look at this thread. They may have additional thoughts worth sharing. Thanks for the discussion. It is indeed an interesting problem. :)

    Ben

  • koraykupe
    koraykupe
    Community Member
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    Btw, I found this popup which has a search option on iPad app. What is that? Is it a different thing?

  • Ben
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    @koraykupe

    At a glance that seems to fall into this category: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/486465/#Comment_486465

    Ben

  • koraykupe
    koraykupe
    Community Member
    edited January 2019
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    @Ben I see. But today I downloaded a recently released app and the 1Password autologin showed the search form to me. Are you sure that you trust this app? https://itunes.apple.com/nl/app/club-intertoys/id1442261759?mt=8

    How can it fall into that category?

  • Ben
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    Are you sure that you trust this app?

    We don't evaluate the trustworthiness of 3rd party apps. The question isn't trust, the question is whether the app has implemented the 'associated domains' feature. For apps that haven't we really only have two choices:

    1. Allow any login item to be filled after the customer selects it from a list of all logins
    2. Don't allow any items to be filled

    We opted for the former. It isn't ideal, but neither would be not allowing any filling. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place. All we can do is urge extreme caution when filling into apps that have not defined an associated domain (and thus you get a search bar).

    Ben

  • koraykupe
    koraykupe
    Community Member
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    I didn't know apps have an 'associated domains'. I think this was more informative. Thanks @Ben

  • Ben
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    You're welcome. :) You can read more about associated domains in Apple's developer documentation here:

    Setting Up an App’s Associated Domains | Apple Developer Documentation

    Ben

  • koraykupe
    koraykupe
    Community Member
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    It looks like the search form is enabled on all applications now. If it was a security concern, I wonder what is changed?

  • Ben
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    @koraykupe

    This hasn't changed. There isn't a search in the 1Password UI in apps that have an associated domain.

    Ben

  • koraykupe
    koraykupe
    Community Member
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    @ben Okay, my bad :(

  • Ben
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    No worries. :)

    Ben

  • Ben
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    @ishiki

    We don't currently have any plans to modify this behavior. We may re-evaluate at some point in the future but I can't promise that it will ever change. If this is deal breaker for you I understand, but we feel it is a valuable protection. I hope you're able to find a solution that you're comfortable with and confident in that meets your needs.

    Ben

This discussion has been closed.