Where did the password generator go? [Still there; click "+ New Password" button]

MaureenOprisko
MaureenOprisko
Community Member
edited June 2019 in Mac

It use to be on the left menu in the browser extension and I can't find it anymore?


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Comments

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni

    Welcome to the forum, @MaureenOprisko! I'm sorry for the confusion. Don't worry; your Password Generator is still there. In 7.2.6, it's located here:

    Hope that helps! :)

  • MaureenOprisko
    MaureenOprisko
    Community Member

    Hi Lars,

    Thanks for getting back to me.
    I don't see it. Did I accidentally hide it or something? Any suggestions?

    Thanks for the help,
    Maureen

  • littlebobbytables
    littlebobbytables
    1Password Alumni

    Hi @MaureenOprisko,

    That looks like our 1Password X extension. The reason it differs from Lars' screenshot is it was initially designed as a standalone extension and so has its own UI (User Interface). If you click the + button to the right of the search field you should find the password generator option there :smile:

  • MaureenOprisko
    MaureenOprisko
    Community Member

    That worked ..... thanks!

  • On behalf of littlebobbytables you're very welcome. :)

    Ben

  • ripreed
    ripreed
    Community Member

    The Password Generator is way to difficult to find now. Please fix that.

  • Hi @ripreed

    If you're using the traditional browser extension there is a large "+ New Password" button on the interface that will get you the password generator. If you're using 1Password X, click the + button and then select Password Generator: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/507453/#Comment_507453

    Thanks!

    Ben

  • ripreed
    ripreed
    Community Member

    That's just it. I had to come to this site, create an account, and search for an article - just to figure out how to use a common function in the App. Sound easy to you? Sorry to be so plain about it. I love 1P and want it to work well. Just adding my perspective.

  • Thanks for your thoughts, @ripreed. I agree, ideally such efforts would not be required. We'll continue to monitor for feedback about this and see if there are ways in which we can improve in that regard.

    Ben

  • Toledo
    Toledo
    Community Member

    The Password Generator is there in 7.2.6 of the desktop application for MacOS, but it's missing in 7.3. Where did it go? (Hint: It's not in the list under the "+" button.)

    Also, in both the 1Password extension for Firefox and in 1PasswordX, there is no way to configure the Password Generator to specify the number of digits or symbols that are included; all you get are check boxes (in the extension) or slider buttons (in 1PasswordX) to toggle digits and symbols on and off. The ability to control the number of symbols and (especially) digits in a password is very important for some sites. Can that functionality please be added/restored?

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni

    @Welcome to the forum, @Toledo! I'm sorry for the confusion, but I remain genuinely unsure what people are referring to when they say that the Password Generator has been "removed" in the 7.3 update of 1Password for Mac:

    I am running a beta build, but since it's Beta-0, its functionally identical to the current 7.3 stable release, so that's not an issue. As you can see, the Password option is NOT removed from the list of options in the pop-up menu from the plus (+) button. Can you clarify what you mean?

    Password Generator to specify the number of digits or symbols that are included; all you get are check boxes (in the extension)

    Yes. This is intentional, because making the symbols/digits checkboxes as opposed to user-controllable sliders introduces a different, random, non-zero number of them into each new password you're creating, which increases randomness and makes it harder to guess.

    The ability to control the number of symbols and (especially) digits in a password is very important for some sites.

    You can still always adjust the number/position of each manually by clicking into the password field itself and adding them via the keyboard, if you must -- but there are fewer and fewer websites out there that require a specific NUMBER (other than: at least one) of special characters.

    Can that functionality please be added/restored?

    I'd have to guess not, since this was a conscious choice and none of the points you raised were not taken into account when re-designing the Strong Password Generator, but I'd be happy to pass along your feedback. Additionally, our Chief Defender Against the Dark Arts, jpgoldberg has asked people to share their use-cases in a separate thread. You're welcome to add yours there, if you like. Thanks! :)

  • Toledo
    Toledo
    Community Member

    Thanks for the prompt reply.

    In your screen shot above, you're pointing at the "Password" option in the drop-down list that appears when you click on the "+" sign, and I agree, I have access to that. But what that does is create a new, saveable item in the "Password" category.

    What is missing is the old "Password Generator" standalone functionality, that you used to be able to access all on its own when you were not, necessarily, creating a new saveable password-category entry in 1Password.

    What it looks like you folks have done is to tuck the old Password Generator under the + Password option, and made it accessible by clicking the gear there. I can live with that (now that I have figured out, with your help, where it might be); I guess I just thought that the old standalone function was a plus.

    Incidentally, if you click that gear, you do get the ability to set the number of digits and symbols; please don't tell anyone. ;-)

  • ag_ana
    ag_ana
    1Password Alumni

    Hi @Toledo,

    Thank you for your additional thoughts! I see where you are coming from, but I don't think I can add anything to what Lars has already written.

    Generally, we think that using the password generator from the browser extension itself is the most common scenario, but you can still use it from the desktop app if you prefer, as Lars explained. In certain cases (for example when you are creating a new Login item directly within the app, rather than letting the browser extension do this for you) you might want to do this directly in 1Password for Mac, but you are free to use the generator there, and then delete the Password item if you don't want to store it :)

  • TheDutchGuy
    TheDutchGuy
    Community Member

    I came here because I felt the same. The standalone generator is "gone". To give some more UX feedback, the current setup makes it cumbersome to change passwords for existing accounts. Next to the fact that it feels weird to keep generating new passwords/records and filling up my 1P DB.

    I really liked the way I was able to just generate a new password on an existing website/account and then 1P asking me if I wanted to update the DB.

  • ag_ana
    ag_ana
    1Password Alumni

    @TheDutchGuy: thank you for the feedback!

    To give some more UX feedback, the current setup makes it cumbersome to change passwords for existing accounts.

    What process are you following to change the passwords at the moment? Is it the one described here?

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni
    edited June 2019

    @Toledo

    Incidentally, if you click that gear, you do get the ability to set the number of digits and symbols; please don't tell anyone. ;-)

    You're quite right, my bad; the sliders functionality is still present in the main app's UI -- but then, that's not how most people generate passwords within 1Password for Mac: they use the mini, because they're most-often generating passwords in the context of an online resource. And it's the mini where the sliders have been removed, but not (yet) the main app. This is mostly an issue of the work that's been done on the mini not yet having made its way back into the main app, but I expect that to change in the not-too-distant future. In fact, we've been working to bring our Password Generator functions and UI across multiple apps, 1Password X and the web app into parity, but it's still a work in progress right now, so apologies for mixing the two up.

    What it looks like you folks have done is to tuck the old Password Generator under the + Password option, and made it accessible by clicking the gear there. I can live with that (now that I have figured out, with your help, where it might be); I guess I just thought that the old standalone function was a plus.

    I'm still not sure what you mean; there was never a "standalone function" for password generation; it works materially the same way in the mini in both 7.3 and pre-7.3 versions; only the location and name have changed (in the mini, anyway). You're just clicking + New Password in the top right of the mini instead of Password Generator in the sidebar. Other steps are identical (with the exception of the aforementioned sliders being replaced by checkboxes).

    The ONLY other difference is that with 7.3, you're more aware of the fact that you're creating a Password item that's saved in 1Password 7 -- but you always were doing so, in earlier versions as well. Look at your "Passwords" category, sort it by Date Created, and you'll likely find dozens of generated passwords that were saved for you automatically without your knowledge by 1Password for Mac. You're welcome to prune or curate them if you like, but we do this intentionally so it's never the case that a password generated by 1Password isn't saved somewhere within the database. If you subsequently save a login with the same password and URL, 1Password will do its best to remove the separate Password item to avoid redundancy...but if you just copy the password ("Save and Copy," in the new iteration of the mini), it will - and always has - remained where it is, in the Passwords category. The only difference with 7.3 is that it's visually more clear that this is what's occurring.

  • Toledo
    Toledo
    Community Member

    Thanks. I really do appreciate all of the time you're spending on this, and your thoughtful responses.

    That said, as a user, it's kind of surprising to hear a developer tell me that something is easier for me, when my experience is that it's not. You'd kind of think that I'd know, right? ;-)

    You put your finger precisely on what I was thinking of as the "standalone" Password Generator function, specifically the "Password Generator" in the sidebar, instead of the "+ New Password". I had indeed become aware that the former was generating saved passwords under the "Password" category, and periodically I would go clean them out; I will need to continue to do that under the new regimen as well, of course. So maybe you're right, and there's no difference after all.

    Nonetheless, it feels to me -- as a user -- like a difference; it feels as though something that was intuitive and straightforward -- "I want to generate a new password for some reason or other, that may or may not have anything to do with immediately creating a saved login, so I'll just go to the 'Password Generator' in the sidebar and do that" -- has been taken away, and replaced with something that is just not quite as straightforward and intuitive. Again, I'm just giving you my own user perspective, and maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, in which case you guys made the right call . . . but my instinct (and The Dutch Guy) tells me I'm not alone.

    Anyway, I'll learn the new approach in due course. Thanks once more.

  • vr8ce
    vr8ce
    Community Member

    I came here with the same questions, and I have the same response. This isn't easier. It's hidden, it's harder to use, and you've taken away our control over our passwords. O-U-R passwords. And the responses here have all been to tell us it's easier and better for us. It's neither. It's harder to find, harder to use, and harder to get the kind of password we want when we want it.

  • ag_ana
    ag_ana
    1Password Alumni

    @Toledo

    I will need to continue to do that under the new regimen as well, of course. So maybe you're right, and there's no difference after all.

    It's possible that this will still happen in certain cases, but it's also possible that this will happen less often. For example, if you generate a new password from the browser extension (say when you sign up for a new website, or when you just want to change the password for an account), 1Password will prompt you to create a new item, or to update an existing one. If everything is done through the browser extension, 1Password should be smart enough to understand that the password you have generated is now a duplicate, and remove it for you.

    I understand this change might have surprised you, but I hope at least benefits such as this might make the transition a bit less painful :)

  • ag_ana
    ag_ana
    1Password Alumni

    @vr8ce:

    It's hidden, it's harder to use, and you've taken away our control over our passwords. O-U-R passwords.

    I'm sorry but I don't believe this is fair. The functionality is still there (not in the main sidebar, I agree, but creating a new password item is done in the same way as it has always been done). And the control of your passwords absolutely remains in your hands.

  • itp
    itp
    Community Member

    In my experience, it's this workflow that I was used to that got broken by this change in the way passwords can be generated:

    • open a "new user" form on a website
    • use the "stand-alone" generate-password feature in the mini-browser (no longer possible)
    • copy paste the generated the website in the form
    • submit the form
    • mini browser pops up to suggest new entry in 1password
    • (easy peasy)

    We'll all get used to the new way of working (there are far worse things happening in the world), but it's true it's not intuitive the first time you're encountered with the change in UX/UI. Hence the fact that people resort to the discussions-site because "somethings missing that was there before"

    pascal

  • ag_ana
    ag_ana
    1Password Alumni

    Hi @itp,

    use the "stand-alone" generate-password feature in the mini-browser (no longer possible)

    Can you please share a screenshot of what you are seeing when you try to generate a new password from 1Password Mini or the browser extension? I can see the button to generate a new password right there on the right side of the window:

  • itp
    itp
    Community Member

    The button is there and I understand now that it is the way to generate a new password. It's just that beforehand you could generate a new password without the mini-browser suggesting to directly save it in a new 1P-entry (because at that point, 1P has no idea with what username I want to work). --> (Question: do you understand the workflow that I've described, because you did not react to that. Thanks)

    Also : I use the pwd-generator in other circumstances (nothing to do with website-credentials, I mean): for example to generate a seed when making new encryption-keys on machines that I administer. The way the 1P pwd-generation workflow is conceived now makes this proces a little bit awkard because I have to keep in mind not overwriting an existing login/pwd-combination in 1P (because I happen to be on a particular website in the browser) when I'm simply using the generator for other purposes than when creating a new account on a website.

    You've always had a really neat feature for generating random strings (including the extremely easy toggle between characters and words - now it's less intuitive with the dropdown (trust me, I'm a user ;)) that can be used in other circumstances than for passwords. But the changes in the UI/UX made this feature a little less easier to use.

  • Toledo
    Toledo
    Community Member

    Yes, precisely, what @itp said:

    "In my experience, it's this workflow that I was used to that got broken by this change in the way passwords can be generated:

    open a "new user" form on a website
    use the "stand-alone" generate-password feature in the mini-browser (no longer possible)
    copy paste the generated the website in the form
    submit the form
    mini browser pops up to suggest new entry in 1password
    (easy peasy)"
    

    That was exactly what I meant, but couldn't say nearly as succinctly; I had a workflow in some cases (most often, when I was not getting to a website's sign-up sheet or login page directly from its home page, but instead from somewhere else within the website, such as an "update password" path) -- and the workflow I had was exactly the workflow that @itp described! -- and that workflow is now no longer possible, or at least no longer obvious because the "Password Generator" in the sidebar is now gone (replaced by a similar path under the "+" button, although if I want complete password customizability then I have to use the Mac desktop app and not the browser extension, because of the replacement of sliders for numbers of digits and symbols with on/off buttons). Moreover, that workflow didn't arise from random chance; it arose because there were characteristics of specific websites that required password generation and/or updating which made that workflow make sense, and the loss of which I perceived, as evidently have others.

    Again, this isn't the end of the world -- I'll learn to do this another way, using the processes that are currently available to me, which is what I would have had to do if the old process hadn't been possible in the first place -- but I do want to reiterate the feedback to the development team: When your users tell you that they feel as though something has been changed for the worse, you might consider the possibility that that's how they actually feel, no matter how sure you are that they'll be better off in the long run.

    You might also consider that some of us (apparently @itp and definitely me, and perhaps others) had discovered additional utility from the "Password Generator" function for uses outside password creation in the context of associated website logins that would be saved to 1Password, and that this additional utility was, to us, a feature, and not a bug to be simplified away under the "+" button. In other words, even if you've made the functionality more streamlined for the primary use of the program (as you clearly believe that you have, and maybe you have for most users), there are some of us who were getting an even better experience out of your creation who will have to learn a new workflow just to recreate something which was formerly easy and straightforward; that feels to me like a loss, which again is not the kind of feeling that a developer should want to engender in a user.

    I do hope that all of this feedback is helpful to you; I'm not looking to be convinced that you're right or to convince you that I'm right (as there are no "right" answers here, just alternative approaches), but merely to give you a user perspective on the change you implemented. To you, it sounds like you thought that this would be an improvement; to me -- and I don't want to speak for them, but evidently to the rest of the users in this thread -- it feels like a step backwards; maybe a small step, but a big enough one that a bunch of us are taking the time and effort to give you feedback on it so that you can understand our use cases.

    Thanks once more for taking our thoughts into consideration.

  • Wdinapwm
    Wdinapwm
    Community Member

    I am really disappointed in the removal of the password generator. Before it was easy and intuitive to access. Now I am still trying to figure out how to generate a new password to register on a website. And I see nothing in the help section that explains a new approach to password generation. 1Password has made significant changes over the last year or two, and it has caused me extensive time to understand and put into effect the new changes. I feel like it's a case of developers running rampant without fully considering the needs of users. Or, alternatively, not clearing explaining why the changes were made in the first place and why users will now have a better experience.

  • itp
    itp
    Community Member
    edited June 2019

    That was exactly what I meant, but couldn't say nearly as succinctly

    Hey @Toledo ! Thank you so much for saying that. It's a compliment I don't get to hear very often. :#

  • ag_ana
    ag_ana
    1Password Alumni

    @itp:

    The button is there and I understand now that it is the way to generate a new password. It's just that beforehand you could generate a new password without the mini-browser suggesting to directly save it in a new 1P-entry (because at that point, 1P has no idea with what username I want to work).

    Both the old and the new method, by default, would save just the password though. If you use the browser extension to generate the new password, 1Password should popup at the end of the login process and ask you if you want to save a new Login, and in this Login item it would save both the username and the password.

    --> (Question: do you understand the workflow that I've described, because you did not react to that. Thanks)

    I do, but since you wrote "generate-password feature in the mini-browser (no longer possible)", I wanted to clarify that it is indeed still possible to do it in the Mini.

    I never used the password generator in the app, and the process I normally follow is this, if it can be helpful:

    1. Visit a website
    2. Enter my username
    3. Click on the 1Password browser extension and click on "New Password" to generate a new random password and fill it in the password field(or, alternatively, I right-click on the password field in the website and launch 1Password from there, so I can reach the "New Password" button from there too)
    4. Submit the form
    5. Accept to save the new Login when 1Password prompts me to

    This allows me to save some steps compared to the process you are using, while getting the same result (a new Login item stored in 1Password, and no duplicate Password item stored in the Passwords category in the app).

    Also : I use the pwd-generator in other circumstances (nothing to do with website-credentials, I mean): for example to generate a seed when making new encryption-keys on machines that I administer. The way the 1P pwd-generation workflow is conceived now makes this proces a little bit awkard because I have to keep in mind not overwriting an existing login/pwd-combination in 1P (because I happen to be on a particular website in the browser) when I'm simply using the generator for other purposes than when creating a new account on a website.

    For passwords that do not belong to a Login item (such as an encryption key), you can certainly create this password directly in the app and save it as a Password item. This should not overwrite anything, especially if the Password item does not include any URL (I am thinking about my Mac FileVault key, for example, which doesn't show up anywhere when I browse since it doesn't have a URL attached to it).

    On the other hand, if this password is not a login password, but is still connected to a login item, perhaps it would make sense to add it as a custom password field in the Login item?

  • ag_ana
    ag_ana
    1Password Alumni

    Hi @Toledo,

    That was exactly what I meant, but couldn't say nearly as succinctly; I had a workflow in some cases (most often, when I was not getting to a website's sign-up sheet or login page directly from its home page, but instead from somewhere else within the website, such as an "update password" path) -- and the workflow I had was exactly the workflow that @itp described! -- and that workflow is now no longer possible, or at least no longer obvious because the "Password Generator" in the sidebar is now gone (replaced by a similar path under the "+" button, although if I want complete password customizability then I have to use the Mac desktop app and not the browser extension, because of the replacement of sliders for numbers of digits and symbols with on/off buttons). Moreover, that workflow didn't arise from random chance; it arose because there were characteristics of specific websites that required password generation and/or updating which made that workflow make sense, and the loss of which I perceived, as evidently have others.

    Thank you for taking the time to share your use case. As I mentioned in one of my previous comments, is there a specific case where you cannot use the password generator directly from the 1Password browser extension, and you absolutely have to create it from the desktop app?

    I do hope that all of this feedback is helpful to you; I'm not looking to be convinced that you're right or to convince you that I'm right (as there are no "right" answers here, just alternative approaches), but merely to give you a user perspective on the change you implemented.

    We definitely do appreciate everyone who is taking the time to share their thoughts! :)

  • ag_ana
    ag_ana
    1Password Alumni
    edited June 2019

    Hi @Wdinapwm,

    I am really disappointed in the removal of the password generator. Before it was easy and intuitive to access. Now I am still trying to figure out how to generate a new password to register on a website.

    I am pasting here the process that I shared a couple of posts ago, if it helps. This is the process I have been following myself, without using the desktop app to generate a new password:

    1. Visit a website
    2. Enter my username
      Click on the 1Password browser extension and click on "New Password" to generate a new random password and fill it in the password field(or, alternatively, I right-click on the password field in the website and launch 1Password from there, so I can reach the "New Password" button from there too)
    3. Submit the form
    4. Accept to save the new Login when 1Password prompts me to

    And I see nothing in the help section that explains a new approach to password generation.

    We have an article on how to change your passwords and make them stronger,, which describes the process for every platform.

  • keitherrington
    keitherrington
    Community Member

    I have just spent 20 minutes of my time trying to find this - and I too am confused by the lack of any explanation on how the new system for generating passwords is supposed to work. I liked the simplicity of the old password generator , and I liked that you could use it for other things too and in ANY circumstance - even when iPassword didn't detect a password field or when using another application on your computer.

This discussion has been closed.