On WLAN Sync in 1Password 7

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Comments

  • we've no plans currently to spend time re-creating WLAN Sync code in the fully-rewritten 1Password 7 for Windows.

    Maybe you should lock this topic then.

  • i think with the removal of local vaults in lastest iOS app they showed the truth behind the WLAN sync removal:
    just push customers forcefully to their cloud.

    i am curious how people will react when they lose the last option of local syncs.

    Windows <-> iOS is at least still possible via the 1PW 4 backdoor
    MacOS <-> iOS still working if local vault still present

    As i understand it, both options will be history with no more local vault on iOS?

    Also HOW this was just silently removed, with the latest app update with no mentions in the update notes is shady IMO
    for me it was the last push to migrate to a new solution, most likely enpass.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @exitstrategy

    i am curious how people will react when they lose the last option of local syncs.

    I'm not sure what you mean; local sync isn't gone. If you purchase a standalone license today for 1Password 7 for Mac, you can create as many vaults as you wish, and use 1Password 7 for Mac's WLAN server to sync them to 1Password for iOS. What's changed there is the ability, from the initial installation/first run, to create a standalone vault in 1Password 7 for iOS. There are no restrictions on syncing, whether via a 1password.com membership or to a local/standalone desktop version via WLAN (or even Dropbox or iCloud). It's not even the case that you have to have existing standalone vaults; as I mentioned, you can purchase a brand-new standalone license for 1Password 7 for Mac today, and create as many new standalone vaults as you wish. Hope that clarifies things.

    Stay safe out there! :)

  • so what happens when i setup 1PW freshly on a new iOS device?
    where is the data with all my passwords stored? on your cloud?

    Why did you removes this feature from iOS? What feature will be removed next without notice?

    Next step will be to silently remove local vaults from Desktop apps as well and then? cloud only.

    After that you guys will remove icloud, dropsbox and then it is 1PW only.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member
    edited July 2019

    @exitstrategy - if you have 1Password on ONLY a single iOS device, you would be required to either:

    1, Sign into a 1password.com account
    2. Create a new 1password.com account, or
    3. Sync data from standalone vaults in a desktop app (1Password for Mac or 1Password for Windows).

    You no longer have the ability to create a vault within 1Password for iOS. But where the data is stored is a function of which of those options I just mentioned you choose: if you have a 1password.com account and you sign into it in 1Password for iOS, then yes, your data would be coming from the 1password.com servers. But if you choose to sync via WLAN, then your data would have only been on your Mac, synced directly via your own home network. And if you choose Dropbox or iCloud, then your data would be coming from those 3rd party cloud services.

  • I dont have a 1pw account and i guess i will never have one.
    what i dont like here is HOW you guys are trying to push people into subscription.
    if you gave customers choice: use local vault or 1PW cloud i would subscribe at a fair price

    but u are not giving people a choice who dont WANT TO / CAN NOT use a cloud service for sensitive data.
    and by secretly and strategically removing a feature that will push people more to your cloud service you will anger loyal customers.

    i was not happy with the WLAN sync feature removal in the Windows app 1PW7, yet i stayed, as i like the UI and as i was comfortable with my over the years built up 1PW data base at home. WLAN sync is still locally alive through the legacy 1PW4 app. A setup that you dont recommend.

    SO what is my choice now?
    yes, move somewhere else. as i dont want my passwords in ANY cloud. be it yours, dropsbox or icloud.
    Not sure why you dont want or can not understand this.
    i am certainly not the only customer with this preference.

    The way you guys did this, how you are communicating now, trying to justify it to remove this feature etc just tells me to avoid you in the future.
    Sorry this once likeable company with a great product developed this way.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    As has been the case for years, you can a) use 1Password with a membership, b) use 1Password by syncing a local vault yourself, or c) use something else. It sounds like you've decided on the latter, and that's fine. Just please do the research and understand the security model of whatever you end up adopting first. Take care, and stay safe out there.

  • Yeah this is bogus. I was happily using 1Password 4 and WLAN SYNC and that stopped working with a recent Android app update so I came looking to upgrade to 1Password 7 and now I find this out. So disappointing.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Thanks for getting in touch! Can you tell me about the trouble you're having with WLAN Server on Android? We haven't changed anything there, so there won't be a reason it won't work as far as 1Password itself. But some info about the problem you encountered might help lead to a solution.

  • Hi I want to just pencil in that I want the windows sync feature back or something to that affect on the windows ecosystem. I just checked and it seems that I can't even export my vaults anymore? Also why can't I change the location of where my backups are stored? Shouldn't that be a configurable?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @MrMcMuffinz: Thanks for your feedback! We do not have any plans to add additional sync options at this time. But while there are still additional export formats/options we want to add, the current version of 1Password for Windows can export selected items for the right-click menu. The place where 1Password saves backups is not configurable, but you can copy them anywhere you want and/or use your favourite backup software to automate doing so. :)

  • Wow. Bad to hear that there is no sync for Win PCs. I think you getting far away of your customers. If I guessed before, I wouldn't have bought the new version today. Sorry guys, but this is really annoying.
    Also you just say your servers are better secured as our home PCs and servers - and now I get the info at watchtower that the agilebits.com login is compromised???

  • jpgoldbergjpgoldberg Agile Customer Care

    Team Member

    @Steinwolf wrote

    If I guessed before [...] wouldn't have bought the new version today.

    The new version involves a 30 day free trial. So you can make a decision of what is right for you after you play with it a bit. If you bought a license instead of a subscription then please contact support about a refund.

  • Thank you for the opportunity to do so. But I found my own solution/workaround to work with. I just stay with both versions. One to work with and the other to sync. That's not the best to do, but I can live with.

  • I would like to chime in to say that I too would like the WLAN sync option to be brought back.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    Welcome to the forum, @yarle, and thanks for adding your voice to this discussion. :)

  • Hello,

    As an IT Professional I totally get that wireless sync could be a support nightmare. That being said I never had an issue with it and it met my needs perfectly. Removing the feature with providing an alternate method that doesn't allow me to keep my information on my local network doesn't meet my needs. Like most folks I need to be able to sync across a minimum of 3 devices (2 iOS and 1 Windows). If I could for example sync a file to or from the iOS device to the Windows PC would be optimum.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @rfalkenberg - we understand, it's not optimal for that specific setup. You've got the one combination of devices for which there's no solution like the one you're hoping for. If your mobile devices were android, you'd have the file sync ability you mention, and if your desktop/laptop was a Mac, you'd be able to use the existing WLAN sync there. In 1Password for Mac, that feature has remained because we didn't have to completely re-write the code base, like we did for 1Password for Windows.

  • MikeTXMikeTX
    edited April 21

    Hi, I am a long time 1Password user who decided to purchase a subscription a few months ago. I use a mix of Windows, Mac and iOS devices.

    I just recently decided to install 1Password7 for Windows in order to gain the integration with the new Chromium version of the Edge browser. In doing so, I realized that WLAN sync has been removed and I was deeply disappointed. WLAN sync was my primary means of keeping all of my devices in sync and always worked perfectly (the only issue I have ever come across using WLAN sync had to do with Windows firewall public/private network rules - which was easy to resolve).

    With the removal of the WLAN sync feature from Windows, I am really at a loss as to what I will do going forward. I decided to give storing my vault on 1Password.com a chance - but was also disappointed once I realized it did not seem to work as I hoped it would. I tested moving a vault to 1Password.com and then moving the data back to a standalone vault. I found out that attachments to items in vaults stored in the 1Password.com cloud are lost when moving items back to a standalone vault. I make frequent use of attachments so this essentially means that moving to the 1Password cloud is a one way street which I don't want to do.

    I had been reluctant to subscribe to 1Password.com fearing loss of functionality and my preference of keeping my vaults locally. I decided to get the subscription and planned on just not using the cloud portion. The loss of the WLAN sync option in Windows, however, is a big issue and I really miss how 1Password worked for me in the past.

    I don't mind paying for a subscription - but I can't justify it if the software, for my use case, now offers me less functionality than previous versions did. Please bring back WLAN sync for Windows.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    Welcome to the forum, @MikeTX! Thanks for writing in and sharing your thoughts. If you've found this thread, then I'm sure you've done some reading in it already, so I won't waste your time by going back over all the points that have already been made in this now-two-year-and-fourteen-page-old thread. It's all here, if you want to read it.

    Memberships are the way forward, and I can say at this point that we very likely won't be bringing back WLAN sync. It was always our most-fragile means of sync, especially since it had no mechanism to allow anyone with more than one desktop or laptop computer to keep those devices in sync, requiring them to do either "sneakernet" with a USB flash drive or Folder Sync on a shared drive. There were a lot of things that could go wrong and regularly did. If you're one of the folks lucky and/or technically inclined enough to not have experienced any of those problems, well, then I'm sorry a way that - for you at least - wasn't broken wasn't built into 1Password 7 for Windows.

    The good news is that we built a much more robust and reliable system in place of it, that allows us to bring you many additional features, like automatic offsite backups, individual item history (and restore), account recover, and much more. And the better news is that you already have this new system. If you've been paying for 1Password recently by way of a 1password.com account, then all you need to do is move your data from your older standalone Primary vault into your 1password.com account vault(s), and then delete Primary (along with any other standalone vaults), and you're ready to go -- just sign into your account from any device or browser you own, and your data is right there. Let us know if you have any questions, we're here to help! :)

  • Hi @MikeTX, if you read through my posting history on this thread, you'll see the solution I'm using. It's still working well. I have to be careful what I post here now because the mods have grown increasingly tired of debate on this topic. Best of luck!

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    To be clear, there really isn't much debate remaining on this topic, after founder Dave Teare’s comment to the effect that we won't be considering any additional sync methods at this time. We appreciate your comments, but please don't take the presence of this thread to indicate it's a subject on which we're still considering our options.

  • Thanks for the replies on this topic. I just wanted to comment on here to add another voice from a user who appreciated the WLAN sync feature and had no issues with it.

    I realize that subscriptions are the way forward - and I do not have a problem with that. I don't mind supporting the development of 1Password since I find it an important piece of software in my daily routine.

    For now, I have decided to use folder sync to keep my Mac and Windows machine in sync. When I am on my Mac, I disable sync and use the Mac's WLAN sync feature to sync up with my iPhone. For now that will be my process. I am not 100% against moving my passwords to the 1Password cloud - I am just apprehensive to use it solely, since if I decide I am not comfortable with this solution - I will lose my attachments if I decide to start using a local vault again.

    Thanks again for the comments.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @MikeTx - thank you for taking the time to share and clarify your position. In that same spirit, let me clear up a couple of small things: it isn't so much that subscriptions are the way forward, it's the concept of membership itself, the actual 1Password accounts. They're more flexible, robust and yes, secure, than standalone data in virtually every way/situation. We totally understand people's reluctance to place their most sensitive and valuable information in "the cloud," especially as we all read seemingly near-daily news about breaches and hacks at this or that major provider/service. But we knew that going into building 1password.com accounts, and while nothing is ever perfect, we think 1password.com accounts are the safest way to use 1Password today. If you're the kind of person who likes thumbing through thick technical manuals, you might be interested in our 1password.com security white paper, it's quite technical, but our Chief Defender Against the Dark Arts, Jeff Goldberg writes it in a style that's also accessible for non-techies too.

    Second (and final) little clarification: you would not lose access to the files themselves if you migrated your data to the 1password.com vaults, they would just be converted to Documents. If you chose to migrate back to standalone, you'd need to separately download those and then re-attach them to the items with which you'd like them associated -- but you're not in any risk of outright losing them.

    Finally, there's nothing wrong with the setup you've established, if you're comfortable with it and don't mind the additional effort it takes to ensure error-free operation (disabling Folder Sync when using WLAN, etc). You'll get the latest updates as soon as they're released without having to worry about whether a new license is required for new versions. But I urge you to give the white paper a read and ask any questions, or better yet, try out your currently-unused 1password.com vault with a little demo/test data, and see what you think! We'd love to hear any feedback. :)

  • AllenHAllenH
    edited May 1

    Just a quick addendum here- I too find that while this new method does afford the company faster and easier feature adoption (probably the reason it was adopted), that the inability to limit control of data to local files and local backups (even if on lans) is concerning. This is primarily how I used the system in the past, and while I appreciate having a website I can access to have all my passwords available via a web-browser on a public system, for my higher trust case systems, I have to consider where I want to store them.

    I guess this is a question we all have to ask then... if we can't control the data to local-only systems, then we have to choose what we accept for non-local systems.

    Thanks goes to 1Password for their candor in the above- they could simply squash any discussion of this! It's helpful to those of us that are trying to maintain more control in this manner to make informed decisions of the use of the software in the current versions.

    Edit- after talking to a security researcher today about things... he did have some glowing comments to make about 1password in comparison to competitors and even open-sourced projects (a couple really big ones get it very very wrong). I was surprised by his answers, and it speaks a lot to 1password's security, as he's someone I highly trust right now in the market. So, I'll be rethinking my thoughts about competitors both open and non-open sourced- 1pass may be the place to be for this type of feature set right now.

  • just want to add that I also want the wlan sync feature back in the layest windows verison.

  • just want to add that I also want the wlan sync feature back in the latest windows version, i have no intention of getting the online version. Why do you not wanting to have more buying customers of standalone version by adding wlan sync feature back on even if online version sales are good?

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @AllenH - thanks for the kind words! We have indeed tried very hard to make sure our hosted implementation is as secure as it can be. The centerpiece of this is really the Secret Key. Creating what we call 2SKD (Two-Secret Key Derivation) makes it virtually impossible for encrypted 1Password data on our servers to be of any use to anyone except the person in possession of both those credentials. A user's password might not be the strongest, but when added to the Secret Key, it becomes essentially unguessable, and neither of those secrets are ever transmitted to us in any form. 2SKD protects you if WE get hacked. And it makes what's "in the cloud" stronger than any other of our previous methods of 3rd-party cloud sync (iCloud, Dropbox). Let us know if you have any questions as you move forward in your exploration. :)

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member
    edited May 12

    @distant - if lack of WLAN sync in future versions of 1Password for Windows is going to be a deal-breaker for you, then without trying to put too fine a point on it, I'd respectfully suggest looking at other solutions, since (as our founder Dave Teare said recently), we don't foresee WLAN sync returning to 1Password for Windows. I'd urge you to have a read through our technical 1password.com security white paper if you'd like to know how 1Password keeps you safe when you use a 1password.com account, but if your mind's already made up, then I don't want to hold out false hope for you. Best of luck with whatever you decide, and we'll be here for you if you choose to stay (or return later).

  • i still got v4 wlan sync and will keep using it. just no reason now to upgrade. anyway, can i still buy an old android license that has wlan sync ? that would really help since i now use both ioas and android.

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