1Password USB Sync Betas

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Comments

  • roustemroustem AgileBits Founder

    Team Member
    @jhm: If you deleted item with a pre-b12 build on iOS then they won't be picked by the sync. We had a bug where 'updatedAt' property was not modified when deleting the item. This is the property that USB sync is using to detect the changes.

    @o.ne: You are right, there is no sync state at the moment. The last update wins. For now I want to keep the USB sync as simple as possible so that we could make it available sooner. This is something that we might add in future.
  • o.neo.ne Junior Member
    edited January 2013
    Is it possible to add a details view, where the names and updatedAt information of the changed entries of both sync partners are displayed?
  • o.neo.ne Junior Member
    edited January 2013
    o.ne wrote:

    When connecting an iDevice to iTunes via wifi, the sync tool recognizes it, but can not sync:


    (null) connected, searching for 1Password app...


    Found com.agilebits.beta.onepassword-ios installed on (null)
    Loading encryption keys
    Loading local items
    Ready to copy data to (null)
    Copying data to (null)...
    Sync completed

    Will this be supported in the future?


    I have two iOS devices in my wifi network, both have the 1P beta installed.
    1P USB Sync gets confused sometimes... it shows the connected (usb) device and sometimes it switches to the not connected (wifi) device and i am not able to sync via usb.
    You should either support 'wifi iTunes shared files' (multiple devices can be connected at once) or ignore those devices.

    Edit: when connecting both devices via USB, the sync tool crashes.
  • Just tested the 1P USB sync between my iMac running 1P version 3.8.20 (build 31499) and iPhone latest Beta.

    Even though the sync works I have to say I find it somehow clumsy:
    1. Starting USB sync app first time, it crashed 3 times in a row (send the error log using the option offered after 2nd crash)
    2. First connection, the sync app told me 323 items on Mac, no items on iPhone. However I had also 323 items on the iPhone already.
    3. Was then asks by the USB sync to turn off file sharing on iPhone. Which I did, and after that USB sync managed to create the file sharing file and told me 323 items on both sites.
    4. Next thing I created a secure note on the iPhone
    5. Replugged iPhone, USC sync recognised 324 items on phone, still 323 on Mac.
    6. Pressed the button to start sync. USB sync did it's thing, after it finished, USB sync still said 323 items on Mac. However, I checked in Mac 1P and the new secure note was there.
      --> status info for Mac side in USB sync was not properly refreshed after sync finished
    7. Changed the secure note on the Mac.
    8. Replugged iPhone. USB sync recognised 1 item changed on Mac.
    9. Started sync. Changes replicated to iPhone after entering master password in 1P iOS.
      Changes were replicated correctly, however, no indication in 1P USB sync that it had done something. Except that the sync button changed from orange to grey of course.
    10. Deleted secure note on iPhone. Should be down to 323 items on the iPhone again.
    11. Replugged phone. Sync tool said 324 items on both, Mac and iPhone and 1 item changed on phone. Actually I would have expected 323 items on phone, 1 item deleted. That status info would make more sense to my mind.
    12. Started sync. Again no change on number of items on Mac - stayed with 324.
      Now checked 1P on Mac. The note was still there! I had to quit (CMD + Q) 1P on Mac and restart to have the secure note item deleted on iOS disappear from my Mac as well.
    13. Next I created a secure note on Mac.
    14. Replugged iPhone.
      Now sync tool states 324 items on phone (remember, I deleted one - should be 324. The item deleted I can not find any longer on the phone, so why still 324?).
      Sync tool also tells me 325 items on Mac. I expected 324. Checking 1P Mac, I found the synced deletion from step 12 in the 1P Mac trash. OK, understand that, but don't like it - why should sync take into account deleted items?
      Is there a trash on the iOS version as well? That would explain why sync tool still reports 324 items there. However I don't find a trash folder on 1P iOS.
    15. Initiated sync.
      After that status tells me 324 items on phone, 325 on Mac. As per above test, that was expected, however don't think I like it like that. Should now be 325 items on both (taking trash into account).
    16. Note is available on iPhone - that's fine.
    17. Change just synced item on 1P iOs
    18. Replugged phone. Status now 325 items on both sides
    19. Changes replicated fine from iOS to Mac.
    20. Deleted item in 1P Mac. Item went in to trash, didn't empty trash.
    21. Replugged phone. IT was recognized, then 1P USB sync tool crashed.
    22. Restarted 1P USB sync. Now reports 325 items on both sides. I changed on Mac.
    23. The secure note deleted on the Mac disappeared from iPhone as well. Great!
      However still got 325 items on both sides. Where are these deleted items in iOS 1P? I can't find them in there.
    24. Emptied trash on 1P Mac.
    25. Replugged iPhone. Now 325 items in iOS, 280 on Mac. The 280 on Mac correspond with the 45 items deleted.
    26. Initiated sync. 1P sync tool crashed two times in a row.
    27. Started 1P sync tool again. Initiated sync again. Sync completed this time. Again no update in status how many items on iPhone AFTER sync completed.
    28. iPhone I can't see changes. Which is ok, as I can't access trash on 1P iOS. So that's alright.
    29. Replugged phone, now 280 items on both sides. Happy bunny :-) !


    Findings and suggestions:
    • Sync seems to work not always if 1P on iOS is not unlocked. Sometimes it did. Sometimes I had to enter master password before changes were synced. Might have to do with the automatic update of the file sharing sync file - which seems to happen every time I enter the master password or I change an item in 1P iOS.
      Preferably sync would work reliable also if application on iOS device was not unlocked.
    • Sync only starts when pressing the orange sync button in USB sync app. I would prefer if sync would start automatically after connecting phone.
    • Sync only starts when 1P USB sync app is active. That's ok for the beta, but the USB sync should really be made integral part of 1P for Mac in the next Mac version. It's not really convenient to start two applications all the time.
    • Keeping the phone plugged to USB, 1P USB sync tool behave funny. The iPhone keeps constantly disappearing and reappearing in the sync tool. No matter whether the phone is on or in standby. Sometimes sync tool shows device connected, but no status regarding number of items - feels like half offline.
    • I'm on wireless sync between iTunes Mac and my phone. Similar as mentioned in 4., when device is USB connected, I can see the phone disappear and reappear in 1P USB sync tool from time to time if not USB connected to USB but visible in iTunes. But no sync possible, not would 1P sync tool be able to come up with the number of items on the phone.
    • Keeping iOS device connected, changes to either 1P Mac or iOS are not reconised by sync tool. Had to unplug and replug iPhone to have sync tool reconise any changes.
    • Had the issue once that 1P USB sync tool did not reconise that iPhone was unplugged - still did show as connected.
      Maybe this has to do with wireless sync which was active same time?
    • Also had the issue that the iPhone was not showing as connected in 1P USB sync when plugging it into USB. Of course no sync possible then too. Replugging solved this.
    • We have 2013. Apple managed to make sync between Mac and iOS devices wireless - and it just works. No wires needed any more!
      Now I have to rewire my iOS devices for syncing 1P. Great idea, thanks!
      You should really be looking to get the 1P USB sync tool to sync also over WIFI like iTunes does. As I can also use iTunes file sharing wirelessly, I would assume that it is possible to also get this working for the 1P USB sync tool as this (to my simple mind) seems to make use of the iTunes file sharing anyway.


    Conclusion:
    If the sync worked, it seems to work correct. I did not recognise any data loss and items added, deleted, changed synchronised correctly. Good job done in this respect!

    But I clearly have to say that the USB sync is so much inferior compared to the old wireless sync. Why?
    Well, this (for me) always worked flawlessly, was build right into 1P Mac, did autosync as soon 1P Mac was active and 4 digit password (not the master password!) on 1P iOS was entered. Very convenient - no plugging cables, no pressing of a sync button!

    You guys really put a burden on customers formerly using WIFI sync by replacing this with a USB sync.

    I understand that the USB sync tool is still quite beta, but even if you get it working with no bugs and crashes, it'll be a step back compared with the old WIFI sync.
    It'll probably work for me and save me putting all the sensitive data into the cloud, but I would rather use it because I have to not because it's good.

    I'm not sure that USB sync will save you so many support requests (which you said was your main issue with WIFI sync). At least not unless you have extremely good and clear documentation how to get it working (a very good and clear documentation might have sorted your WIFI sync issues as well). For me when connecting for the first time it didn't work as straight forward for as just plugging the cable, I had to maneuver through a number of messages, password request pop-ups on iOS where it was not clear whether I had to enter the 1P iOS or the 1P Mac password (it was the latter I found out) - and at some point it started working. The other issues I file under beta bugs for the time being and hope this will improve in future versions of the sync tool.

    I'm quite happy to test any improved version of the USB sync. But looking at the whole thing as it stands, I think that taking away WIFI sync is a real design failure in the 1P development roadmap. I might change this statement if you get a sync working reliably via iTunes file sharing on iTunes wireless sync. Because then we're back on local wireless... and Apple can serve as your guilty guinea pig in case a WIFI sync does not work, because it's no longer your WIFI sync, but Apples ;-)

    Sorry for the lengthy post, but I was trying to share my experience with a full test cycle and a bit of my grief (no disrespect!) and (hopefully) constructive criticism.
    Other than the sync I'm pleased with 1P 4 for iOS - the application is much slicker than the earlier version - not saying that the old one wasn't good, but this new one just looks and feels nicer!
  • I understand that 1Password 4.x for iOS now supports file attachments. I created a secure note with an attached image in 1Password for Mac (current MAS version), but I can't see this image in iOS after an USB sync. Is this a limitation of the USB sync utility? Or did I misunderstood something here?
  • tseagertseager Junior Member
    Unlike some of the others, I'm experiencing crashes WITH the desktop app opened and unlocked. The USB Sync application crashes continuously when the desktop data file is open. I could not even fill out a problem report before it crashed again.

    As was reported above, connecting two devices simultaneously causes crashes. Can only proceed by closing USB Sync or removing one of the devices. Both devices sync properly when it's the only device attached.

    Occasionally, the connection status and sync status is not reported properly on the desktop. The mobile app shows it's syncing, but desktop shows an erratic status, and may not show it's attached or that a sync has completed.

    However, even without documentation, USB Sync is preferable to iTunes sync. Thank you for working on this option for those of us are prohibited (by company policy) or wary of using the cloud.
  • jdonatojdonato Junior Member
    Mac OS 10.8.2, 8GB RAM
    1Password Mac Version 3.8.20 (build 31499)
    1Password iOS 4 (latest beta)
    1Password USB Sync 1.0b15

    I am experiencing pretty much the same as "tgtpws". Sync seems to work, but numbers are not correct. Deleted items in iOS go to trash in Mac, instead of being deleted, and number of items stay the same, etc. Pretty confusing.
    Also, I did not have problems with WiFi syncing in previous version, always worked great.
    At least we are going forward. Previous versions did not recognize my data in the Mac.
  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    Hi guys,

    o.ne wrote:

    Is it possible to add a details view, where the names and updatedAt information of the changed entries of both sync partners are displayed?


    We'll look into it, right now the priority is to stabilize the tool before we consider adding more features.

    o.ne wrote:

    I have two iOS devices in my wifi network, both have the 1P beta installed.
    1P USB Sync gets confused sometimes... it shows the connected (usb) device and sometimes it switches to the not connected (wifi) device and i am not able to sync via usb.
    You should either support 'wifi iTunes shared files' (multiple devices can be connected at once) or ignore those devices.

    Edit: when connecting both devices via USB, the sync tool crashes.


    We confirmed the bug with two devices via USB crashing the app. We're working on fixing it as soon as possible.

    As for the Wi-Fi devices, if iTunes is turned off first, does the USB sync work better with one device?


    TheMaJa wrote:

    I understand that 1Password 4.x for iOS now supports file attachments. I created a secure note with an attached image in 1Password for Mac (current MAS version), but I can't see this image in iOS after an USB sync. Is this a limitation of the USB sync utility? Or did I misunderstood something here?


    No, it should be syncing everything. We recently just added support for file attachment in Secure Notes. Make sure you're using 1Password 4.1 beta 20 or try attaching the image file to a different item like a Login and see if that'll sync the attachments.

    In addition, make sure you lock and unlock the app to update the data or go to Settings > Sync to tap on "Sync Now". The 1Password 4 for iOS app won't update automatically, this will be improved in a future update to the 1Password for iOS app.

    tseager wrote:

    Unlike some of the others, I'm experiencing crashes WITH the desktop app opened and unlocked. The USB Sync application crashes continuously when the desktop data file is open. I could not even fill out a problem report before it crashed again.

    As was reported above, connecting two devices simultaneously causes crashes. Can only proceed by closing USB Sync or removing one of the devices. Both devices sync properly when it's the only device attached.

    Occasionally, the connection status and sync status is not reported properly on the desktop. The mobile app shows it's syncing, but desktop shows an erratic status, and may not show it's attached or that a sync has completed.

    However, even without documentation, USB Sync is preferable to iTunes sync. Thank you for working on this option for those of us are prohibited (by company policy) or wary of using the cloud.


    We've received many crash reports and are working on finding out what's causing them. Hopefully, we can find the causes quickly.

    The mobile app shouldn't reporting anything during the sync at this moment, only the USB sync tool can report the progress. Once it is done syncing, you have to manually press Sync Now in Settings > Sync or lock and unlock the app again.

    Documentations are forthcoming once we are happy with the USB Sync tool, it's still in a very early stage of development.

    jdonato wrote:

    Mac OS 10.8.2, 8GB RAM
    1Password Mac Version 3.8.20 (build 31499)
    1Password iOS 4 (latest beta)
    1Password USB Sync 1.0b15

    I am experiencing pretty much the same as "tgtpws". Sync seems to work, but numbers are not correct. Deleted items in iOS go to trash in Mac, instead of being deleted, and number of items stay the same, etc. Pretty confusing.
    Also, I did not have problems with WiFi syncing in previous version, always worked great.
    At least we are going forward. Previous versions did not recognize my data in the Mac.


    Just to be clear, you deleted an item in iOS and nothing else? Numbers of items do not decrease when you delete an item, it just becomes a trashed item and it is kept in your data file until you empty the Trash in 1Password for Mac. Once you do that, the number of items will decrease.
  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited January 2013
    Hi tgtpws,

    Thanks for the detailed post, we appreciate it!


    tgtpws wrote:

    Just tested the 1P USB sync between my iMac running 1P version 3.8.20 (build 31499) and iPhone latest Beta.
    .....



    The USB Sync is still in a very early stage of development, so we plan to stabilize as much as we can.

    Thanks for sending in the crash report, our crash reporter itself is also a beta. Things will get better over time, we just need more hours in a day.

    I believe you're correct about the app not refreshing the item status on the Mac side after it pull changes from the iOS device. We'll try to update it after the sync is done.

    The changes will only be updated on the iOS device once you lock/unlock the app or pressing the "Sync Now" button in Settings > Sync. This is because the iOS app isn't yet optimized for the USB sync as we're working on this tool first before we focus on the iOS side.

    When deleting an item, it is not gone from your data file, it is simply marked as trashed and it is still counted as an item. That's why you'll see it in the Trash folder in the Mac app. We hope to implement the ability to empty the trash on the iOS side but for now, only the desktop app can empty the trash.

    When emptying the trash, you have to let it sync and then then wait for the iOS app to replicate the changes after you lock/unlock or press "Sync Now". Once you do that, restarting the USB app should re-read the item status correctly.

    The instability of the USB connection is likely due to the background USB/iTunes services that we're using to connect to your devices, the wireless iTunes sync does seem to destabilize that specific connection and we're trying to figure out how to prevent the USB Sync tool from using the Wi-Fi connected devices.

    As for Apple making the iTunes Wi-Fi-capable, we're happy that they made the move but we're hoping that they'll make the next move by allowing the developers to sync via Wi-Fi. At the moment, there are no officially supported APIs for the wireless sync. That's why we've dropped it, rolling our own Wi-Fi solution was too unstable and Apple has a much bigger budget to fix this problem.

    As for the documentations, we're working on it but with many changes that are ongoing, it'll get outdated quickly, so we're holding off until we can stabilize the tool much better.

    For the Wi-Fi sync issues, we did have documentations (here's the link) and we even had our best CS agents on the phone with the customers, it did not help. The Wi-Fi networks itself are complex, while you had a stable network configuration which may lead to much stable Wi-Fi sync, many customers didn't and it caused us many hours to get them resolved.

    In addition, asking customers to turn off specific router settings was extremely difficult as there are dozens of different routers with different interfaces. Once we figure out where it would be, it helped.

    Now, with the USB sync, there are none of that complex settings, it's a simple USB sync tool.

    We're not saying no to anything and it is possible there may be wireless sync support later, the fact that we're trying to work on this supports this.

    We'll do everything we can to fix this.
  • [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1Password USB Sync 1.0b15[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1Password iOS 4.1b20[/font]

    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Never installed 1Password Mac. [/font]

    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Just want to use USB Sync to sync two iOS devices. Is this possible, will this be possible? [/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Now getting the message box "Cannot sync - Cannot find local data file on this Mac" ?[/font]


    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Kind regards[/font]
  • jdonatojdonato Junior Member
    MikeT wrote:


    Just to be clear, you deleted an item in iOS and nothing else? Numbers of items do not decrease when you delete an item, it just becomes a trashed item and it is kept in your data file until you empty the Trash in 1Password for Mac. Once you do that, the number of items will decrease.


    You are correct. Still, it was confusing. When deleting an item, I expect to see item count go down, specially since in the iOS app there is no way of seeing what's in the trash.
    Thanks for answering.
  • villeville Junior Member
    GoldFF wrote:

    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1Password USB Sync 1.0b15[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1Password iOS 4.1b20[/font]

    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Never installed 1Password Mac. [/font]

    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Just want to use USB Sync to sync two iOS devices. Is this possible, will this be possible? [/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Now getting the message box "Cannot sync - Cannot find local data file on this Mac" ?[/font]

    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Kind regards[/font]


    Its not technically even possible to connect two ios devices with usb.

    But how about sync with windows?
  • Thanks for your reply to my post MikeT!

    MikeT wrote:

    The USB Sync is still in a very early stage of development, so we plan to stabilize as much as we can.

    I'm well aware of that. Have to say I was actually astonished that synchronizing the data as such worked fine. Even with the problems mentioned I experienced no data loss. For an early beta a very good job!

    MikeT wrote:

    I believe you're correct about the app not refreshing the item status on the Mac side after it pull changes from the iOS device. We'll try to update it after the sync is done.

    Great news, found it a bit confusing to have no feedback whether things (=number of items) have changed, meaning that the sync has actually done the right thing.

    MikeT wrote:

    The instability of the USB connection is likely due to the background USB/iTunes services that we're using to connect to your devices, the wireless iTunes sync does seem to destabilize that specific connection and we're trying to figure out how to prevent the USB Sync tool from using the Wi-Fi connected devices.

    As for Apple making the iTunes Wi-Fi-capable, we're happy that they made the move but we're hoping that they'll make the next move by allowing the developers to sync via Wi-Fi. At the moment, there are no officially supported APIs for the wireless sync. That's why we've dropped it, rolling our own Wi-Fi solution was too unstable and Apple has a much bigger budget to fix this problem.

    ...

    We're not saying no to anything and it is possible there may be wireless sync support later, the fact that we're trying to work on this supports this.

    Got your point. I don't care which way WIFI sync works, whether it's your implementation or Apple's - as long as it works, it'll work for me.
    Did not know that Apple has no API for the WIFI sync yet - that's a shame. There is a good number of iOS apps syncing with their corresponding Mac version using WIFI, I guess all these could make good use of an Apple WIFI sync API instead of reinventing the wheel always.
    Of course a lot use Cloud sync nowadays. Which is fine for most apps where I don't see a potential security issue - I use it with Apple's notes feature for example. But passwords, secure notes, (bank) accounts, possibly contacts I just find to be too sensitive to be stored in the Cloud. At least unless it's a private Cloud.

    MikeT wrote:

    Now, with the USB sync, there are none of that complex settings, it's a simple USB sync tool.

    Right, and you could make it even simpler by taking away the need to press sync buttons to start the sync after plugging the device in <img class=" />


    MikeT wrote:

    We'll do everything we can to fix this.

    Thanks, I appreciate that you are working on a way to get the data sync'ed "cloudless".

    Cheers
  • ville wrote:



    Its not technically even possible to connect two ios devices with usb.

    But how about sync with windows?


    I connect one, sync to Mac ( 1P not installed ), disconnect, connect second ios device, sync again. Should/Could this work with the present or future USB sync versions?
  • golfsierragolfsierra Junior Member
    edited January 2013
    in the Mac App (3.9.6) there are 372 items ... after starting 1PW-USB-Sync (b15) the app says that there are 373! items and 2 folders (which is correct)?

    any idea why this sum differs (there are no items in the trash)
  • o.neo.ne Junior Member
    edited January 2013
    GoldFF wrote:

    I connect one, sync to Mac ( 1P not installed ), disconnect, connect second ios device, sync again. Should/Could this work with the present or future USB sync versions?


    Technically this should work. USB-Sync only syncs files. You just need a 1P keychain file (folder) in the right folder.
    I don't know if the sync tool checks the installation or just uses the files.

    This is just my opinion, i am not the developer.
  • Will you incorporate this app into 1Password 4?
  • Penelope PitstopPenelope Pitstop Junior Member
    In case you guy's haven't seen it, there is a new poster in the main iOS forum who does not have access to Dropbox in his country. I reckon he/she would be highly motivated to test USB syncing. Might be worth inviting him to participate.
  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited February 2013

    Hi guys,

    I'm sorry for the lack of progress on this, Macworld has kept us very busy and we haven't been able to release an update just yet. We're working on it and hope to have an update soon.

    This app will work with 1Password 3 data files as well as 1Password 4 data files, which means that the app is likely to remain a separate app in order to make it compatible with both versions.

    It is possible we'll release updates to both 1Password versions to embed the USB sync but only after we're sure the tool is working properly but that's not our priority at the moment and may not happen.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi guys,

    We just published the latest b16 and it's our first public beta to be shared with public. In addition, we've opened up the public beta forum, please share your reports in there.

    Thank you!

This discussion has been closed.