(B85) - multiple vaults - suggestions

2

Comments

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi Tommy,

    Attempt to merge (which is a bug ATM) for now.

    @SJK, I found your crash reports and attached the note about switching vaults. We'll take a look as soon as possible.

    By the way, you guys can switch the vaults from the lock screen by clicking on the app icon.

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member

    Thanks, @MikeT. Instead of a starting new topic I'll just mention another minor vault-related one here:

    The share menu for an item in a secondary vault named "Test Vault" displays "default" and "demo" as the names of my two other vaults instead of "Primary" and "Demo" displayed in vault switch menus. The share menu for items in either of those other vaults properly displays "Test Vault".

  • @MikeT: There are a plenty of crashed in B87 - occured during copy between vaults, open these copied items, move to trash and empty trash (probably there is same root cause for all crashes)

  • sandman4suresandman4sure Junior Member

    It is true that with the new Alfred update only the primary vault is used?
    Can't seem to find passwords in another vault.

  • sandman4suresandman4sure Junior Member

    Is 1Password for iOS already compatible with the multiple vaults feature?

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi guys,

    Here's the list of issues that I've filed:

    1. Entering the incorrect password will show Delete (Null) Vault in the 1Password Menu.
    2. If you send an item to a vault, and repeat the cycle of sending the same item to the same vault, it'll crash the 1Password mini.
    3. If you're in a non-primary vault, the Share menu shows default instead of primary as the primary name.
    4. Switching vaults via 1Password mini crashed the mini a few times.

    @telephoneman, I can't figure the crash with the Trash. Can you tell me the steps you took to reproduce this?

    @sandman4sure, At the moment, the integration between 1Password and Alfred only works with the primary vault instead of the active vault you're using. I'll test this and file a report to see what we can do to handle this situation.

    As for 1Password 4 for iOS, it won't support multiple vaults for now, this will require an update to it down the line. We'll focus on stabilizing the multiple vaults in the OS X app and then work on the iOS app down the line.

    Please keep testing this features and update us on any other edge cases you could find. We're working on improving most of the reported issues so far.

    Thank you guys, we REALLY appreciate your help!

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member

    Thanks for the status on those issues, @MikeT.

    Maybe someone knows if this could work as intended or simply be too risky to try:

    I currently use Dropbox Sync with 1P3 on OS X and 1P4 on iOS. Is it possible to have a secondary vault in 1P4 that also uses Dropbox Sync with those other instances of 1P3/4 on OS X and iOS? I'm concerned about potential interoperability problems, e.g. with smart folders like @MartyS reported. Even without creating any smart folders in the 1P4 secondary vault I'm wondering if its All Items and Security Audit builtins might be troublesome for the other 1P instances after synching.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi guys,

    All of the issues should be fixed now with beta 86, I'm not able to reproduce any of them now. Please test it and let us know how it is working out!

    @SJK, Not yet but we could work around it by exporting a vaultname.agilekeychain via Dropbox. 1Password 3 wouldn't have a problem switching the data files but your 1Password 3 browser extensions won't work once you open a different data file.

    Also, there are no other instances of 1Password being opened, there's only one 1Password and one 1Password mini instances, even if you switch a different vault. You can confirm this via Activity Monitor. All of the vault data are stored within the same database, we're just loading a subset of the data associated with a specific vault when opening it. Each vault is encrypted with a different encryption key, so we decrypt on the fly with the specific vault's encryption key.

    So when you switch to the different vault, the app close the other set of data and loads a different set of data from the same database.

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member

    @MikeT, these bugs are fixed in 4.0b88:

    Entering the incorrect password will show Delete (Null) Vault in the 1Password Menu.

    >

    If you're in a non-primary vault, the Share menu shows default instead of primary as the primary name.

    Not sure about this one:

    Switching vaults via 1Password mini crashed the mini a few times.

    I did manage to crash 1P mini during switching from 1P main.

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member

    Thanks for the feedback re: "Maybe someone knows …", @MikeT. I'll accept "Not yet" means it's a no-go for now without fully understanding the details. Setting up Dropbox Sync with a secondary vault to use existing Dropbox Sync 1P data (from 1P3 OS X and 1P4 iOS) seems like where I'd run into trouble. About this:

    Also, there are no other instances of 1Password being opened …

    Useful to know, though in my post "other [1P] instances" was referring to a single version of 1P running on each system/device.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @SJK,

    I did manage to crash 1P mini during switching from 1P main.

    Can you give me more details as to what you were doing before it crashed. Did you switch by clicking on the titlebar or 1Password Menu? Was the app locked at the time and were any browser opened at the time?

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member

    @MikeT: I filled in some brief details in the crash report sent earlier. Hadn't touched 1P mini and no browser was open. I was fooling around with different combinations of vault switching/(un)locking in 1P main. Wasn't able to reproduce it from a fresh start.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @SJK,

    One of our developers is taking a look, he got it to crash like what you described but rarely. Hopefully, the next update will fix it.

  • MartySMartyS AgileBits Customer Care (retired)
    edited September 2013

    @sjk and FYI to @MikeT:

    I have great backups! :) So as soon as I read that other vaults used their own sync preferences I did create a new vault for my wife, and then using the sync preferences pointed it to her shared Dropbox folder. It worked perfectly... finding her 1Password.agilekeychain and bringing them all into the 1P4 database. If the application is indeed changed to only look for "vault name.agilekeychain" then I guess that will break down my successful syncing. Using unique .agilekeychain filenames is a perfect solution if more than one keychain needs to be in the same sync folder, but in my case each lives in its own location — and named 1Password.

    No more logging into her OS X account or manually switching keychains to look something up!

  • faceface Member

    Ehm ... this is THE supersecret you've 'un'announced in one of the sticked thread ?
    BTW it's an awesome feature!

    Is it possible to move some items from one vaults to another ? Or better click on item to assign to 1 or more vaults ?
    I'm looking for a way to share some items with other members of my team and don't know it this new feature is THE way to do that.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited September 2013

    Hi @MartyS,

    The vaultname.agilekeychain format is used when exporting to a new file that's going into Dropbox but you shouldn't have a problem using an existing 1Password.agilekeychain file to merge into the new vaults. We're looking into adding the ability to open a new vault from existing data files, so that you don't have to create a new vault manually, and then select that file to merge it.

    @face, yes and yes. Click on the share menu in your item, there'll be a list of vault to copy the item to. You can then sync to Dropbox or use Folder sync, and share that specific data file with them. They do have to know the vault password and they do have to create a new vault first before turning on the sync to select that file.

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member

    @MartyS wrote:

    I did create a new vault for my wife, and then using the sync preferences pointed it to her shared Dropbox folder. It worked perfectly... finding her 1Password.agilekeychain and bringing them all into the 1P4 database.

    Neat. :)
    Thanks for testing that and reporting your results. Is your wife using 1P3?

  • faceface Member

    @MikeT
    what happens to items shared ?
    If i delete the secondary vault they are deleted also on primary vault ?
    What happens if the user that used that shared vault make a change to an item ? It extends the change also on item in primary vault ?

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member
    edited September 2013

    @face asked:

    If i delete the secondary vault they are deleted also on primary vault ?

    Nope. Items in each vault are independent of each other even if they've been added with "sharing".

    What happens if the user that used that shared vault make a change to an item ? It extends the change also on item in primary vault ?

    Changing a "shared" item in a secondary vault doesn't change the original items in the vault they were shared from.

    Thinking of "share" as "copy" can be helpful.

  • MartySMartyS AgileBits Customer Care (retired)

    Thanks for testing that and reporting your results. Is your wife using 1P3?

    No problem at all! It has really helped with my sharing workflow. And for the time being I'm the only one here with a system that can run anything more recent than Snow Leopard so yes, she's running 1P3. That means that I cannot create any Saved Searches into my vault for her without potentially causing her version to crash. Some Saved Searches are okay... others not so much. Getting near-instantaneous access is worth my treading carefully.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi guys,

    @face, you're copying items to vaults, not sharing them. We have to figure out a better UI for this but for now, a copy is being made to the vault and is separated from the original vault.

    @MartyS, I'll need to check with the guys, we were looking into filtering out the 1Password 4 smart folders from showing up in 1Password 3.

  • faceface Member

    Thanks sjk and MikeT.
    In fact actually it's a 'simple' way to copy items but not a true sharing: and that has its benefit but also its limits.

    Any chance to have also a true sharing feature ?

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @face,

    No, there's a lot of security stuff we have to work around and that's not going to happen any time soon. We'd like to do it in the future but I don't know when it might happen, just not now.

    For now, you'd have to sync the secondary vault to the other party and copy the item into your own private vault to ensure you have the latest versions of the items.

  • faceface Member

    MikeT,
    may you please elaborate your last sentence ?
    I've an item i want to 'share' with a friend.
    So i create a new vault and copy here.
    Then allow my friend to access to that vault (dropbox folder or other folder for now, no iSync).
    If me or my friend modify the item it's obviously modified for both (in the new vault) is it correct ?
    In your last sentence you said that at this time i could copy that item to my primary vault, it it correct ?

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    @face,

    Yes, the changes he made will sync back to your secondary vault. You then switch to that secondary vault, copy the item back to your primary vault.

  • faceface Member

    Any chance to add a search in all vaults function?

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member

    @MartyS wrote:

    …she's running 1P3. That means that I cannot create any Saved Searches into my vault for her without potentially causing her version to crash.

    That's an easily acceptable limitation for what I'd like to do (and will probably attempt soon, already having plenty of safety net backups). Have you modified items in your 1P4 secondary vault that are successfully synced back with her 1P3 vault?

    Getting near-instantaneous access is worth my treading carefully.

    Yup, the benefits can certainly outweigh avoidable pitfalls.

    @MikeT wrote:

    we were looking into filtering out the 1Password 4 smart folders from showing up in 1Password 3.

    That's less of a concern for me after Marty's feedback and realizing that 1P4 builtins for All Items and Security Audit aren't (AFAIK) actually stored in vaults so they won't be synced.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    @face wrote:

    Any chance to add a search in all vaults function?

    I'll add it to our list but no promises. There are a few limits to this:

    1. Each vault is encrypted with its own key, so searching in all vaults means it has to search first in the primary vault, then decrypt the access to the second vault and repeat the same search. It goes on for the rest of your vaults, so this could be a very exhaustive search. It might not be possible for us to do.
    2. This can only be done from the primary vault since it knows all of the vault keys.
  • MartySMartyS AgileBits Customer Care (retired)

    Please ignore my earlier stated concerns about Saved Searches potentially crashing 1Password Mac 3. See this post for the details.

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member

    Just set up a secondary vault using Dropbox Sync of my 1P3 data. Added a new Identity item in 1P3 (3.9.6) that quickly showed up in the 1P4 secondary vault. But a change to that item in 1P4 hasn't shown up in 1P3 even though there was Dropbox activity on the latter's system shortly after making the change. No difference after restarting 1P3 main/helper. Whoops - the unchanged item from 1P3 temporarily appeared in 1P4 while editing another new (but unsaved) Identity item in 1P3. But wait, the first item change made in 1P4 finally appeared in 1P3 after adding another identity item in 1P4.

    1P4 on iOS did a bit better with its Dropbox Sync of changes. 1P3 on OS X lags the most with reflecting changes made elsewhere even after Dropbox Sync has completed. At least it all seems to eventually properly work itself out, providing sufficiently useful interoperability until I'm ready to take 1P3 out of the loop.

    Multi-vault support with separate sync settings is awesome!

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