iOS Restrictions App Rating 17+ [1Browser: built-in browser mandates this App Store rating]

124

Comments

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Right; exactly as @prime says. :) "Ask to Buy" is essentially a replacement for age restrictions.

    Ben

  • This was a useful thread. However, things seem to have changed.

    It looks as though Apple has closed all the workarounds. Resetting your child's age now requires you to contact Apple support, and having "Ask to Buy" checked does not allow the download of 17+ Apps from the store onto devices owned by someone under the age limit. (I have it checked, 1Password is available through Family Sharing, and I can't download it to my daughter's device.)

    There is a workaround for the Go&Fill functionality: set up a bookmark in Safari and use the Autofill, which is nicely integrated now. There is no workaround for this problem, which cripples one of the major use cases for Family accounts.

    Personally, I think that shifts the balance between the two desiderata, but I understand that people without children might not think it's that important to keep children secure on the internet. (OK, that's a very emotive way of phrasing it... But if you are going to keep 1Browser, you should at least have an up-front warning on Family accounts that they are not suitable for families with children on iOS.)

  • primeprime
    edited December 2019

    @dchart

    If you read on page 3 this person confirmed ask to buy works. I know it works as well because my sisters kid is under 17, she has the restrictions off, the ask to buy on, and my nephew has apps on his phone that are for 17 and over. I know his because I’m the one who set it up.

    If you leave the restrictions off and ask to buy on, it will work.

    @brenty, thanks for the thought on using Ask to Buy. It was a good work around, unfortunately this isn't the case with the latest OS. We have the app on her phone and it is visible when the restrictions are removed and becomes "invisible" when the restriction is turned on.

    See above, they got it to work, but once the restrictions were turned back on, it removed the app.

    A part of me thinks they should just remove the 1Password Browser and make it easier. Then again people who will have 1Password for Families are... families and will most likely have the family set up for Apple as well.

  • @prime

    Digging deeper, it turns out to have been the settings on the filtering software that Japanese phone companies are required to install by law on children's smartphones. I've now changed them (turned them off, basically) and it works. Sorry for my confusion.

    So, it's possible to live without an update to the App now, but a walkthrough in the help center for setting up 1Password on your child's iOS devices would be very helpful, because it's really not obvious.

    (Also, note that Ask to Buy is not perfect; if you have Family Sharing turned on, your child can download any app you have downloaded without asking for permission, unless the age restriction is set. You might not want your child to have access to everything you have bought. Can I just confirm that I could download the 1Password app free, then sign in to the family account as my daughter, to get full functionality? This would be another thing to go in the walkthrough.)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    So, it's possible to live without an update to the App now, but a walkthrough in the help center for setting up 1Password on your child's iOS devices would be very helpful, because it's really not obvious.

    @dchart: Likewise, I'm sorry for the hassle, but glad you were able to figure it out. That's way outside the scope of 1Password though, as far as making a guide for someone else's software we know nothing about. I just asked my friend here, and her daughter didn't have anything like that on her au iPhone. They've been using Apple's Family Sharing and parental controls for a while now, including "Ask to buy" and 1Password. So I'm not sure what that's all about in your case, but your provider should be able to answer questions about it.

    (Also, note that Ask to Buy is not perfect; if you have Family Sharing turned on, your child can download any app you have downloaded without asking for permission, unless the age restriction is set.

    You're right that, with Ask to Buy, while a child doing a "purchase" from searching in the App Store will require permission to buy it using their own Apple ID, if you're sharing App Store purchases with them they can go to your purchase history and download that same app if you already got it using your own Apple ID. So there is a "loophole" if the child downloads apps from the parent's purchases, if they've chosen to share them. I think that's fair feedback for Apple, just not something we can help with.

    For the record, I double checked all of this now with a little help from my friends ;) Here's the breakdown:

    1. Parent "purchases" the app using their Apple ID
    2. Child tries to "purchase" the same app using their own Apple ID
    3. Parent is prompted on their device and denies it
    4. Failure: app is not installed
    5. Child also does not get the app added to their Apple ID
    6. Child tries to install the same app from parent's shared App Store purchase history
    7. Success: app is installed
    8. Child tries to "purchase" another app using their Apple ID
    9. Parent is prompted on their device and allows it
    10. Success: app is installed
    11. Child deletes it
    12. Child tries to install the same app again
    13. Parent is not prompted, as they already approved it earlier, and it is available in child's Apple ID
    14. Success: app is installed

    You might not want your child to have access to everything you have bought. Can I just confirm that I could download the 1Password app free, then sign in to the family account as my daughter, to get full functionality? This would be another thing to go in the walkthrough.)

    I'm not sure what you're asking here. Can you clarify?

  • @brenty Thanks for the reply.

    Likewise, I'm sorry for the hassle, but glad you were able to figure it out. That's way outside the scope of 1Password though, as far as making a guide for someone else's software we know nothing about. I just asked my friend here, and her daughter didn't have anything like that on her au iPhone. They've been using Apple's Family Sharing and parental controls for a while now, including "Ask to buy" and 1Password. So I'm not sure what that's all about in your case, but your provider should be able to answer questions about it.

    Oh, I've fixed the problem with the Japanese filtering software, and I agree that it's outside the scope of anything you could write. I was thinking more about the basic iOS set up. You know, set up an AppleID for your child using a Family, as shown at link1, then set the preferences to allow apps of any age rating, as at link2, then probably turn on Ask to Buy so that your child can't randomly install any adult app they want. (And then a note that there may be other filtering on your child's iPhone if that doesn't work, but that Agile Bits knows nothing about it, so you should check with your carrier.) Along the lines of the flowchart you provide to set 1Password for password autofill now.

    (The Japanese filtering is relatively new, and you can ask the phone company not to install it. At least at Softbank, you have to tick a box saying "I know what I am doing, we don't need this". I should probably have ticked it… I think the law changed a couple of years ago, so if your friend's daughter got her iPhone before that, she wouldn't have the software.)

    You're right that, with Ask to Buy, while a child doing a "purchase" from searching in the App Store will require permission to buy it using their own Apple ID, if you're sharing App Store purchases with them they can go to your purchase history and download that same app if you already got it using your own Apple ID. So there is a "loophole" if the child downloads apps from the parent's purchases, if they've chosen to share them. I think that's fair feedback for Apple, just not something we can help with.

    Absolutely, although it's another bit of weight on the side of removing the browser to make 1Password more family friendly. I suspect Apple will implement increased granularity here at some point down the road, however.

    For the record, I double checked all of this now with a little help from my friends ;) Here's the breakdown:

    Yes, that looks right.

    You might not want your child to have access to everything you have bought. Can I just confirm that I could download the 1Password app free, then sign in to the family account as my daughter, to get full functionality? This would be another thing to go in the walkthrough.)

    I'm not sure what you're asking here. Can you clarify?

    I bought the iOS version of 1Password way back, when it was a one-off purchase. Now, it appears to be a free download with in-app purchases for the subscription. Thus, I was wondering whether I could stop sharing my purchases with my family, then get the app on my daughter's AppleID without paying anything, and sign her in to her account on our family 1Password account to have the app work. Is that clearer?

    Thanks again for your help.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Hi @dchart

    I bought the iOS version of 1Password way back, when it was a one-off purchase. Now, it appears to be a free download with in-app purchases for the subscription. Thus, I was wondering whether I could stop sharing my purchases with my family, then get the app on my daughter's AppleID without paying anything, and sign her in to her account on our family 1Password account to have the app work. Is that clearer?

    1Password Families essentially supersedes any previous purchase arrangements in this regard as it includes the latest versions of all of our 1Password apps for all of your devices.

    then get the app on my daughter's AppleID without paying anything, and sign her in to her account on our family 1Password account to have the app work. Is that clearer?

    In short: yes.

    Ben

  • @Ben

    That was my guess. Thank you!

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    You're very welcome. :)

    Ben

  • tombrtombr
    edited April 13

    Ask to buy is not a replacement for age restrictions, it's complementary. Certainly Apple's implementation is imperfect – specifically that children can download items bought on another profile within permission is clearly bad, and that there is no way to whitelist older-rated apps is frustrating. But in any case the restriction applied to 1Password with 1Browser built-in is unlikely to change and, given the unrestricted browser, not something I would necessarily want to whitelist. I find it very frustrating that 1Password cannot create a browser-less version of the app, it basically means that my 1Password Family subscription is not a family subscription at all, it's restricted to adults.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    @tombr

    Giving up 1Browser would mean giving up "Go & Fill," as 1Browser is currently the only way to implement that function on iOS. While I personally don't care for the Go & Fill workflow, and prefer to start my browsing sessions in a browser instead of within 1Password, there is a segment of customers who disagree. Releasing and maintaining a separate app is a non-starter. So the choice for us is between keeping 1Browser (and Go & Fill), along with the 17+ rating, or removing functionality that some not-insignificant chunk of customers rely on. Rock, meet hard place. The ideal thing in my mind would be for Safari to offer us a way to do Go & Fill natively on iOS, so we could ditch 1Browser without losing that. Unfortunately I don't imagine that is in the pipeline.

    Personally I'm advocating that we remove it, as I think dropping the 17+ rating is more important than the Go & Fill workflow, but I'm going to make a lot of enemies if I'm successful. There are other workflows (such as autofill) that can be used instead of Go & Fill. The counter-argument is that Ask to Buy can be used instead of age restrictions. There are good arguments on both sides.

    Ben

  • @Ben thanks for responding, it's nice to know there is some support to resolve this. I don't value the 1Browser at all, and at the moment I am paying for a Family subscription and unable to add family members, hence I am an unsatisfied customer.

    The counter-argument is that Ask to Buy can be used instead of age restrictions

    Actually no, it cannot be used instead. If I disable age restrictions then my children can download any app that has been purchased by another member of the family. With age restrictions, they cannot. So Ask to Buy is not a suitable workaround.

    Releasing and maintaining a separate app is a non-starter.

    Well there goes any hope of resolving this.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Actually no, it cannot be used instead. If I disable age restrictions then my children can download any app that has been purchased by another member of the family. With age restrictions, they cannot. So Ask to Buy is not a suitable workaround.

    I was not aware of that implication, but reading Apple's guides on the subject it appears:

    Content can be hidden by family members; hidden content is not available for download.

    (from Share App Store, iTunes Store, and Apple Books purchases with Family Sharing - Apple Support)

    Perhaps purchases you do not want your children to be able to download could be hidden?

    and at the moment I am paying for a Family subscription and unable to add family members, hence I am an unsatisfied customer.

    If Ask to Buy is not a workable solution for you, you could certainly add them and have them access 1Password through the 1Password.com web app, instead of 1Password for iOS, though admittedly that will not provide anywhere near the same level of integration that the native app offers.

    Well there goes any hope of resolving this.

    We tend to hold any future plans pretty tight to the chest but I can say that there are currently (as of writing) no plans to remove 1Browser, so unless Apple provides a mechanism through which we can apply a lower rating (e.g. by enforcing content restrictions on it) while having it, I do not see this changing anytime soon. Ask to Buy is the best we can currently offer here.

    Ben

  • Thanks Ben. Sorry to hear that.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    You're welcome. If there is anything else we can assist with, please don't hesitate to write in.

    Ben

  • This issue is still around and its been like years... I've been waiting for the 1browser to be removed... most people I know don't even realize 1password has a browser, and I know people who moved away from it when it could not be set to under 17+.

    I myself have been wondering what to do and whether its worth switching.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member
    edited May 8

    @shamguy4

    This issue is still around and its been like years...

    And as far as I can tell it is likely to be that way for years to come. There are no current plans to change it. For what it's worth: I agree with you. But because 1Browser is the only way in which we can provide "Go & Fill" functionality, there will absolutely be people with pitchforks on this forum if and when it is ever removed, quite upset that we'd removed functionality.

    If there were ever another way to do Go & Fill, without 1Browser, then that would seemingly make the decision easy. Until then, we're between a rock and a hard place.

    Ben

  • What the heck is go & fill?
    I normally just go to a site on any browser, click the user name and password area, let face ID do the work and bazinga, I'm in!

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member
    edited May 8

    That's what I do too. :) But that isn't everyone's workflow. Some not-insignificant percentage start in 1Password, find the Login item they want to use, and tap on the website field. This takes them to the website and fills in their credentials ('Go & Fill'). They find this to be more convenient than managing bookmarks in their browser or relying on the browser's URL autocompletion. For example, I just had a conversation with a 1Password for Mac customer the other day who felt this way. You can read the conversation here:

    https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/113261/why-not-a-logins-preferences-for-1password

    If we remove 1Browser we remove that possibility entirely from customers using iOS. Again, personally, I think it is a worthwhile trade-off to better enable access to 1Password for people age 17 and younger, but not everyone would agree. There is at least some workaround (Ask to Buy) for those 17 and younger. If we remove 1Browser, there is no workaround for people with this workflow.

    Because we don't collect analytics / metrics on our customers, based on our strong privacy beliefs, it is hard to say what percentage of customers that would be... but I can say just from experience in customer service that it isn't small.

    Ben

  • Your telling me people go into 1password to go to a website???
    I doubt the majority is doing that... That is ....sounds like old people.... let me guess these people also use IE11 on their computers?
    :/

    Why don't you run a poll? I can't imagine that is how most people use a password manager, especially when there are now many different password managers and they don't have browsers which means that this IS NOT the expected way of using a password manager.

    It is to store passwords.
    If someone is using 1browser over chrome, safari, firefox they aren't the norm.

    I am a web developer. We deal with IE people on a daily basis. They simply choose to use IE11. It's a small group, but we don't let it affect our ability to move forward.
    We simply try to educate them and we do not go backwards for their sake.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Your telling me people go into 1password to go to a website???

    I am telling you that, yes, and you can read about the workflow and why it works for one of them in the post I linked above.

    I don't have further comment on the balance at this point, other than to say we're happy to continue to gather feedback on this situation, which may eventually tip the scales.

    Ben

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    @shamguy4

    Here is another recent example of a customer using 1Browser, who would probably be upset by its removal:

    Feature Request - Export to Files — 1Password Forum

    Ben

  • I wish I would have seen this thread before I clicked the “upgrade to 1Password for families” option a few minutes ago. Count me as another user who would love to have the iOS app in my son’s (under 17) iPad. I honestly hadn’t realized 1Password was 17+. Now I’m very much regretting the decision to upgrade.

  • It should be called “1Password for adults”!

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Hi @mdreher

    Have you looked into the 'Ask to Buy' workaround for this?

    Request and make purchases with Ask to Buy - Apple Support

    The idea being that you'd turn off age restrictions, but turn on Ask to Buy, so that you would have to approve any new apps that they attempt to download.

    Ben

  • Have you looked into the 'Ask to Buy' workaround for this?

    I'll refer back to my earlier comment:

    The counter-argument is that Ask to Buy can be used instead of age restrictions

    Actually no, it cannot be used instead. If I disable age restrictions then my children can download any app that has been purchased by another member of the family. With age restrictions, they cannot. So Ask to Buy is not a suitable workaround.

  • +1 to what tombr said. I agree with him/her completely.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    @tombr

    I understand. :) That doesn't mean that it wouldn't possibly be a solution for @mdreher.

    Ben

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Thanks @mdreher. That's the best we've got at the moment, but hopefully we can find a more agreeable solution in the future.

    Ben

  • edited July 9

    I'm not sure, if it clearly to everybody how "Ask to buy" in Apples familysharing works.
    If I activate "Ask to buy" and my son wants do download an app, that no member in the familysharing group has ever downloaded before, than I am asked if I want to allow the download of the app or not. No matter if it is a paid or free app, and no matter for which age this app is allowed.

    If I allowed the download, and my daughter wants to download the app as well, than she can do this. The "Ask to buy" option does not ask me again, she can download and use the app, and I will not get noticed about that.

    And that is the same for apps that I or my mife use or have used in the past. The children can download these apps as well, without me geting noticed about that.

    So, if you turn off age restrictions, the kids can use any app that any member of the familysharing group has ever used, and the parents will not be noticed or asked for permission.

    In my optinion the ony way to let children safely use 1Password is to remove the browser or to offer two apps. One with browser, one without.

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