Copy vs Move Items Between Vaults

I'm just getting started using the Family subscription (and haven't yet added other family members, as I want time to become more comfortable with the app(s) before inviting others).

One question I have, though:

  • When moving items from my Private vault to the Shared vault, is it better to copy them or move them? I seem to recall reading that if the items are copied from one vault to a different vault, then any changes made to that item (e.g. password changed) are only reflected in the copied item, not the original item. Obviously, this would pose a problem if one is relying on the original item's login information, wouldn't it?

Hoping you can help me understand this a bit better.


1Password Version: 6.8.4
Extension Version: 4.6.12
OS Version: OS X 10.13.1
Sync Type: 1PW

Comments

  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member

    Hi @mhosborn,

    I'm just getting started using the Family subscription (and haven't yet added other family members, as I want time to become more comfortable with the app(s) before inviting others).

    Glad to hear you've got your Family subscription started, that Megan was helping guide you through in email. :+1::chuffed:

    If you haven't already seen it, here's a support article to help with inviting and sharing with others in your family:

    Share 1Password with your family

    When moving items from my Private vault to the Shared vault, is it better to copy them or move them?

    Great question. That's up to you and it directly relates to what comes next:

    I seem to recall reading that if the items are copied from one vault to a different vault, then any changes made to that item (e.g. password changed) are only reflected in the copied item, not the original item.

    You've recalled correctly! Items copied to different vaults are completely separate from each other, including changes you make to any of them. They basically start out as clones, although there's no interconnection between them so they'll develop separately and uniquely unless you manually make the same changes to each copy.

    Obviously, this would pose a problem if one is relying on the original item's login information, wouldn't it?

    It could, unless you apply due diligence to updating all copies of items in their respective vaults so they'll remain "in sync". Or you could designate one copy as the 'master' to make updates to, then recopy it to some other vault(s) and delete the older copies. That's what I did for awhile, eventually realizing it was too tedious to sustain.

    Regardless of how you manage multiple copies of items, it can turn out to be troublesome if you lose track of what's been updated where.

    When you move items to a new vault, the original items will be moved to Trash in their original vault. I usually like to keep Trash empty so 'questionable' items don't pile up there, instead knowing it's possible to restore deleted archived items if the need arises:

    View and restore previous versions of items in 1Password accounts

    I also have some Archive vaults, not included when viewing All Vaults, for storing items that needn't be cluttering other vaults and aren't immediately ready (if ever) to Trash.

    Hoping you can help me understand this a bit better.

    I hope that's helped increase your understanding of this. Let us know if you've got other questions about it or anything else. Cheers! :)

  • Thanks so much for your reply. I must say I was very pleased with the support Megan was able to provide getting me started....!

    As I'm all about simplicity (

  • @mhosborn What you also could do is create a vault where only some people have write access. https://support.1password.com/create-share-vaults/ This way you could share items everybody should be able to read (like Netflix, Spotify, etc.), but not to edit. That would make this the "master" copy.

  • Manaburner...so if I use the method you described and created a vault with read-only access, I could copy items to that vault, and when I changed the password on the "master" item, this new password would then be reflected on the copy?

  • No what I mean is that you have only one copy of this item in this (for the other family members) read-only vault. There are no other copies of this item than in this vault.
    There is unfortunately not a link between items.
    I would love if you could have one master item and copy references to that item into other vaults. So family members still had access to this item but if you change the master item, it would change everywhere.
    However I do think that is not possible in the current 1Password.com vault design.

  • OK...I understand now. Maybe it's just me, but I see a lot of value in allowing the user to copy an item into other vaults, yet still retain the ability to edit the item where the edit is propagated to all copies of the "master" item. I think this would (for me, anyway) greatly simplify
    setting up family sharing.

    But I do like your suggestion of creating a vault where only some members have write access!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited November 2017

    @Manaburner, @mhosborn: I think a lot of people can agree with that. Certainly it can be confusing the way it works now. :blush:

    However, having the same item live in multiple places can also be confusing. For example, if you delete it is it deleted everywhere, or just in one location? Some people will except one thing, while others will feel the opposite. In theory we could offer the user a choice, but that's a bit weird too.

    But the real issue is a technical matter regarding security: each vault is encrypted separately, so it would be a bit of a mess to manage all of that. When copying/moving an item from one vault to another now, the destination item is re-encrypted with the keys of the destination vault. That's what makes it possible for you to share data with some people but not others.

    Creating a shared vault and limiting access to it is something that is possible today though, and incredibly useful in most cases. For example, having things like the Netflix password in the family's Shared vault, which all members can access, but having a separate shared vault just for the parents, to put things like financial information — the kids probably shouldn't have access to that and perhaps don't want to anyway. ;)

  • Brenty....that's a great explanation of how everything ties together....and why my suggestion probably wouldn't be feasible. I'm still wrapping my head around all of this, but it's starting to become clearer to me now. I like the concept of using the Shared vault available for everyone, but separate a separate vault (or vaults) for other family members. The Shared vault could contain passwords useful to everyone, but the other shared vaults would be used for select family members. (e.g. bank passwords would be shared between myself and my spouse in a separate vault shared just between the two of us).

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @mhosborn: Glad I was able to help! While it isn't possible today to have an item exist in multiple places at once, perhaps it will be something we can do in the future. So it's good to hear from you and others that this is something you might like. We're unlikely to spend any time trying to solve problems like this if no one cares! But creating multiple vaults to share with some, all, or none of your loved ones is something that is possible today with 1Password Families — with no effort required for anyone but the Family Organizer who sets that up: they just appear on the devices of those given access to it. And be sure to let us know if you have any other questions. We're here for you! :)

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