Password generator - V7.3 - MAC

Hi
I love 1password BUT since version 7.3 the password generator is just horrible to use & understand.

We must have managed to understand that the old and really easy password generator has become + new password.
then its use is much less intuitive and logical than before.

Every time I ask for a new password, it copies and saves a card with just a password that accumulates in 1password. If we create multiple passwords and ultimately we don't use them we end up with dozens of temporary passwords stored unnecessarily. WTF

I see that many people love the simplicity of the old password generator, so is there a way to rethink its new functioning?

Best
Julien


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member
    edited June 10

    Hi @elvis69

    Every time I ask for a new password, it copies and saves a card with just a password that accumulates in 1password. If we create multiple passwords and ultimately we don't use them we end up with dozens of temporary passwords stored unnecessarily. WTF

    This hasn't changed. :) It has worked that way for quite some time. 1Password automatically cleans these entries up if you save them into a Login item. You can read more about this function here:

    If you used the password generator and can't find the password to sign in

    I see that many people love the simplicity of the old password generator, so is there a way to rethink its new functioning?

    What seems to be the difficulty, specifically? Are there websites where the password generator is generating passwords that are not accepted? If so can you please provide the URLs for those websites?

    We must have managed to understand that the old and really easy password generator has become + new password.
    then its use is much less intuitive and logical than before.

    There has been some discussion on the wording here. We may consider changing this to "Password Generator" or similar, but then seemingly everyone will have to re-learn again. :) So, discussion continues, with no decision as of yet.

    Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

    Ben

  • I have the same exact issue with Mac Ver 7.3 - there used to be a separate menu entry in the mini browser extension for the password generator - that is now missing and replaced with the new password button. I absolutely hate this change and if this was the way one password operated when I first started using it many years ago, I wouldn't of started using it in the first place. 1Password was always the easiest and best app to use, that has now changed considerable. I get really tired of all these entries that show up with only a password in them, as I continually have to go in and cleanup/delete these entries. The workflow has gotten considerably harder with this change, please give us the Password Generator menu item back instead of the insanity that is currently in place

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    Thank you for your feedback @chiefpoints! And welcome to the forum!

    The workflow has gotten considerably harder with this change, please give us the Password Generator menu item back instead of the insanity that is currently in place

    Can you please let us know what makes it more difficult now? Other than the button placement, how did your workflow change in a major way now?

  • lysanderlysander
    edited June 16

    @ag_ana I think these two images show what many of us are requesting.

    What you gave us:

    What we want back:

    The change you made takes away all the exposed controls that many people were used to using and want to continue using.

    In addition, the old menu, the one you thought we did not need or want, was very clear and easy to understand. Many of us like using mouse navigation rather than remembering and tying shortcut commands.

    The old menu was really close to perfect. So the AgilBits decision decision was "let's change all that."

    Seriously reconsider your decision making and listen to the community. I do not see any posts saying how much the user loves the new interface. Sure most people don't bother to comment. But the universal dislike the motivates people to comment negatively on your product should say something.

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    Hi @lysander,

    Thank you for your feedback. I see that you have posted the same message in several threads, so to avoid duplicating information, I am going to reply to you just here. First of all, I am just going to say that we really appreciate you taking the time to write this feedback. Thank you!

    In addition, the old menu, the one you thought we did not need or want, was very clear and easy to understand. Many of us like using mouse navigation rather than remembering and tying shortcut commands.

    I think this comes down to personal preference a lot. I myself, like you, only use the mouse and I rarely use keyboard shortcuts, but I find the new version much clearer than the previous one to use with a mouse, having everything in a single window. Having everything aligned, within the same window, without having to hover over several menus, makes it much clearer in my personal opinion as a user.

    But then again, I understand this is very subjective, so thank you again for sharing your thoughts!

  • The fact that experiences are subjective is universal. It doesn't explain anything about how changes to 1password are decided upon. Clearly there must be a group of people (or a single person) signing off on these changes. So isn't possible that the group is too isolated and therefore "out of touch" with the subjective desires of a majority of users? How do you ensure that doesn't happen?

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member
    edited June 19

    Welcome to the forum, @AbsurdName!

    So isn't possible that the group is too isolated and therefore "out of touch" with the subjective desires of a majority of users?

    Anything's possible, I suppose. But I'd find this unlikely, especially given that virtually all of us here, including developers and designers, do at least some customer service in addition to their primary duties -- answering people either here in this forum or via email. That's precisely because we think it's important not just to engage the community and keep up on what users are thinking about 1Password and how they're experiencing it, but for everyone here to have the experience of doing so.

    This has been true since the very beginning when new people were usually trained directly by Dave Teare. In fact, to this very day, depending on conditions and timing, you might get a response directly from Dave or Roustem (our founders) or our Chief Defender Against the Dark Arts, jpgoldberg -- and that's not to even mention the numerous developers who regularly monitor these forums and interact directly with users even more frequently. So, while we can certainly always do better - and we strive to - I think the idea that we're "out of touch" with the desires of "a majority of users" isn't too likely. I'd also remind you and anyone else reading this thread that what you see on these forums -- even in threads that are several pages deep -- represents a very tiny fraction of a user-base that's now in the multiple millions. That doesn't mean we don't take feedback from people who post here seriously (if we didn't, we wouldn't bother maintaining these forums), only that what seems in the context of these pages alone to be a "majority" can often be far from that: a tiny but vocal minority.

    Thanks for stopping by and leaving your thoughts here; we encourage you to continue to participate -- just remember that, while we won't always pursue every suggestion that gets raised here, we're always grateful for the feedback. Cheers! :)

  • Thanks, Lars. Although I'm a new participant in the forum, I've been using 1Password for many years and have indeed corresponded directly with Dave Teare in the past. I'm mostly happy with the product.

    This software and its UI have become much more complex, as the designers adapt it to changes in the privacy practices and technology details of operating systems and Websites, apps, etc. that require passwords. The basics of encryption and universal application have been covered well and those are of primary importance. But more complexity begs better explanations, both introductory and ongoing.

    Choosing which new features to add and which to abandon or hide beneath layers of complexity is obviously tough. In my opinion, 1Password could improve how it does these things. In particular, when features change, you could provide clear explanations as to why and explain the potential upsides and downsides. For example, I was unaware of 1PasswordX until today when I came across the term on the Website. There is a lot of specific jargon and there aren't always hyperlinks to the glossary or to explanations. You could add those. You could also improve announcements of changes, possibly with pop-up explanations.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @AbsurdName: Ironically, much of the criticism of the new design is that it is less complex than what we had before. ;) We'll continue to listen to feedback from you and everyone else as we develop future versions. And, if you have specific questions about what something means or how to do something else, just let us know. We're happy to help. :)

  • @brenty. Did you read my third paragraph? You didn't comment omg my suggestions.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @AbsurdName: I did comment on that:

    when features change, you could provide clear explanations as to why and explain the potential upsides and downsides. For example, I was unaware of 1PasswordX until today when I came across the term on the Website. There is a lot of specific jargon and there aren't always hyperlinks to the glossary or to explanations. You could add those. You could also improve announcements of changes, possibly with pop-up explanations.

    if you have specific questions about what something means or how to do something else, just let us know. We're happy to help. :)

  • alexwoolfsonalexwoolfson Junior Member
    edited June 19

    Howdy,

    I found this thread because I've also been struggling a bit with the new New Password button.

    While I would also like the controls to be exposed (since many sites require the password recipe to be tweaked), my main concern is that it's not obvious how to automatically fill in passwords when creating a new login. Instead of Save & Fill, all I seem to get is Save and Copy. It feels like it now requires more mouse clicks to get done what I need when creating a login (which is to fill in the password twice - once in the Password box, and again in the Confirm Password box that all these sites seem to require.)

    It's not the end of the world, but it does feel a bit more laborious than before. Am I missing something? Is there a way to get the passwords to automatically fill in the right slots like before?

    Please let me know. Thanks!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @alexwoolfson: Likewise, thanks for your feedback! Adding an autofill option to the new password generator is something we're working on as we speak. We just want to make sure that it works well. :) I think it's actually the same amount of mouse clicks now, but if you can give a specific example of something we might be overlooking I'll be happy to investigate -- whether that be a site with particularly troublesome password restrictions, or something in 1Password's UI.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @AbsurdName - I appreciate how disorienting it can be when a piece of frequently-used software appears to change without warning, right before your eyes, as the result of just an incremental update. There's most definitely a cognitive load to having to change the neural pathways that had you hitting these keys in precisely this order that's not always welcome or trivial to change/overcome. We get it, for sure (because we all have to keep up with it ourselves!). That's one of the reasons we place a very high bar for changing the UI in 1Password: to keep that sort of disorientation and requirement to learn new methods to only what's truly necessary/beneficial.

    That said, this is kind of the nature of updating any software: to the extent that changes are made, there's really no way to "soft-introduce" them, most of the time. That's why we issue some of the most complete release notes in the industry: to provide context and "warning" of changes, even if they are more liks "simultaneous" rather than "advance" warning.

    For example, I was unaware of 1PasswordX until today when I came across the term on the Website.

    I'm not sure what to tell you, since there is a dedicated section of this very forum for both 1Password X and the beta version of 1Password X. There are also multiple support pages dedicated to 1Password X on our static support site, covering everything from a general overview to a "get to know," how-to guide, to security aspects of 1Password X. There were also posts on our blog, stretching back to before we even released 1Password X, to major updates, right up to nearly today, and that's to say nothing of multiple contemporaneous news reports from November 2017 (when 1Password X debuted). I'm not trying to simply bombard you with links here, but I'm curious to know what else you think we should have done to make the public aware of this new way to use 1Password?

    There is a lot of specific jargon and there aren't always hyperlinks to the glossary or to explanations. You could add those. You could also improve announcements of changes, possibly with pop-up explanations.

    We're aware there is a learning curve associated with 1Password, just as there is with most new things that are more complicated than, say, a toaster. And we do provide a glossary of terms to try to help ease that curve. And as brenty mentioned earlier, we're always happy to provide links or answer questions from people who aren't sure what we refer to. But making sure we add a direct link to the explanation of each term, every time one of us uses it, is something I don't think we'll pursue, since it would add dramatically to both the link clutter on these dynamic forums and our static web pages, as well as the work required of each of us to remember to make each term a hyperlink in every post we reply to. I'm not aware of any major software outfits who add such links to explanatory definitions every time they deploy a term - or any non-tech industry which does so, in fact. We're happy to entertain ideas for how we can reduce the learning curve and/or confusion for newer users while not making things more cluttered for people who don't need such things, however, so if you have specific suggestions, we'd love to hear them.

  • alexwoolfsonalexwoolfson Junior Member

    Thank you, brenty. Maybe I'm just remembering things wrong, but I think

    BEFORE:
    1) click in first password field
    2) click the 1Password icon
    3) click Generate Password (maybe adjust recipe, if necessary)
    4) move my mouse over slightly, click Save and Fill
    5) BAM! both the password and the confirm password fields are filled at the same time and the password is saved with the Web site in 1Password

    NOW:

    1) click in first password field (which maybe I need to re-train myself not to do)
    2) click the 1Password icon
    3) click New Password
    4) maybe click to get access to recipe, if necessary
    5) click Save and Copy
    6) click back down to password field
    7) cmd-v
    8) click confirm password field
    9) cmd-v

    Maybe I just need to relearn a new way of doing things, but with the way I was doing things before, it does feel like a bit more effort and mousing/clicking around. :)

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @alexwoolfson - thanks for the specific steps. The first three in both your examples are identical (if a little different in UI/placement). The fourth step in the new workflow is intentional. You can still decide whether to use symbols and/or numbers, but instead of sliders, it's just a checkbox, and we put it behind a caret/drop-down intentionally. As to the rest, as brenty mentioned, we're currently working on a "fill" option for the new mini, so that should leave step 4 in your workflow as the only real difference. Hopefully, that won't be too onerous a burden for folks, but definitely let us know what you think when the refinements arrive (and no, I don't have any ETA on that, but it's currently in development, so barring anything unusual, it should be in the next update). Thanks for offering your perspective and use-case! :)

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